They just introduced the Carrera T, a base Carrera with performance upgrades. That model is available with a 7-speed manual. FWIW, since the 991, non-GT cars' manual transmissions are a 7-speed PDK architecture adapted to manual shifting.

 

Why would they not take into consideration the fact that manuals get up to a $10,000 premium over a PDK in the preowned market? If I had anything to do with Porsche marketing and pricing I think I would recognize that manuals are cheaper to build and that given the premium they get on the preowned market, not enough of them are being built and those that are built are priced too low. "We could build more manuals, asking for more money than we currently do and increase our profit margin further".

You say "they make profits from selling new cars with all the added features". Seems like they could make even greater profits making a manual an "added feature". I keep reading that Porsche has the greatest profit margin in the industry. If true, I don't think they got there by completely ignoring what's selling and for how much in the preowned market. Something doesn't add up here imo.

 

 

Re: Porsche marketing and MT options...

The majority of Porsche buyers are not fanatics on this forum.

It is a prestige marque with cachet and confers some perceived elite status in some circles.
The GT cars and certain S and GTS 911/Boxster/Cayman models appeal more to drivers who appreciate the engineering/performance over the styling and badge.

No poseur would configure or order a new Porsche with "model or PORSCHE delete" from the rear end. Serious collectors and Caffeine Car Show fans are their own markets.

The PDK affords certain types an opportunity to drive the brand without possessing the requisite skills of a 3-pedal car. There's also subset of buyers who DD in traffic or cannot physically operate a clutch pedal.

The fact that a PDK is quicker 0-60 and on a track muddies the waters WRT marketing and pricing, IMO.

When those performance models reach the secondary market, the buyer pool demographic skews to enthusiasts, who are apparently more likely to desire (and pay extra for) a MT.

Hence the real and perceived valuations for 6MT, RWD (and WRT the 997 GTS, NA WB) Coupes. Thanks to BaT and PCARMarket sales data, the premiums paid are documented, real and still holds true through yesterday's auction results.

That's my take on it, anyways. YMMV, and most likely does.

Also explains some enthusiast buyers valuing OEM stock configurations over modded cars. Many desire the popular mod options, but want the OEM parts for possible future sale to a national resale company or a P dealer. A casual Porsche fan would not notice, nor care, about tasteful/expensive/value-adding performance mods. Porsche dealerships who might CPO the car obviously know the difference and adjust their buy offers/resale prices accordingly.

 

Spot on. I actually think there was a poll or at least a thread a while ago of what percentage of Porsche buyers Rennlisters thought frequented this forum or even knew about it. As I recall it the consensus was between 1% and 5%. I would probably lean towards 1% rather than 5%. Which is why I think it's a bit misleading for some to make a blanket statement that a manual commands a $10K premium over a PDK based on RL opinions and BAT auctions.

So needless to say I don't think Rennlist opinions and BAT auction results are good proxy's of the market as a whole. As you point out, Rennlist is an enthusiast's forum as is BAT auctions which many here refer to for reference. They're both dominated by enthusiasts as opposed to the huge majority of Porsche buyers who just want a "Porsh" and go to the nearest dealership and buy or order what they want. They've never heard of RL or BAT. Nor do they care about either one.

I do think both RL and BAT are good references as to what Porsche enthusiasts are willing to pay for specific configurations but not good references to what a large majority of buyers want and how much of a premium a manual is worth over a PDK. All one has to do to confirm this is to look at the dealership's inventory, both new and used. Again, it's not a new trend. It's 14 years old.

 

Your argument makes sense, but it's based on a macro trend "over 14 years"- not on the ONLY source of recent actual sale prices...auctions.

The used 997 GTS market is but a slice of the 997.1/.2 market, which is a subset of all used Porsche resales. No macro trend can be extrapolated from the relatively few 997 GTS cars changing hands each year.

BaT and PCAR sale price data is transparent and current. Used car sale prices are not public information, only the asking prices are known.

I try and follow the 997 GTS market, not so much the S and base models.
The 6MT premium exists in the 997 GTS and to a lesser degree on other Carerras.
It existed, to a much greater extent, when the 911 auto option was the inferior/unpopular Tiptronic.

One need not understand or agree with a phenomenon to acknowledge it exists.

 

BAT references are easy to use because you can look up previously sold cars, which you can't do on the more common for sale sites, but the MT premium exists wherever these cars are listed for sale, like cars.com, auto-trader, carvana, CarMax, etc so it's what the whole 997 market is reflecting, not just what the enthusiast sites are reflecting.

 

What are the different means that you refer to? The drives.today article would lead one the believe that the 997.2 X51 is the same engine on the factory optioned Carrera S/4S and the GTS. Full disclosure, I own a factory optioned X51 2010 Carrera 4S so I am curious about what the differences might be.. I understand that the 997.1 X51 is different and that a dealer installed powerkit might also be different.

The X51 Exclusive Option is $16,900 on my window sticker which includes sport exhaust (looks the same as the GTS sport exhaust, not base or S/4S) and the C/F intake cover. I appreciate your insight.

 

My 2c. I did some research a long time ago and found no difference in hardware and programming in the X51 Carrera 9A1 and the GTS 9A1. Many differences in suspension and other hardware but none in the 9A1 X51.

 

I defer to Nate. He da man.

Perhaps I confused the .1 kit with the .2 version.
I’ve read lots about it recently and will review the articles when I have time and get back to you.

Here is a quote I saved to my 997 GTS tech file, but with no attribution:

“Something else that is unique to the 997 GTS (until it was subsequently used on the Sport Classic and 997 Speedster) is the power kit used to raise the 3.8L’s horsepower to 408. They didn’t just slap the X51 kit on it.
The GTS’s power increase produces the same 408 hp result, but is different from the Carrera S X51 kit. Most of the 3.8’s 23-hp increase in the GTS is from a bespoke variable-resonance intake manifold. It utilizes six vacuum-controlled flaps that independently for each cylinder alter the air’s path to the cylinders at different rpm, optimizing torque and power.
Ported and polished cylinder heads, a sport exhaust, and a remapped ECU round out the changes.”

That description differs from this article posted above in the thread:
https://drives.today/posts/196/tech/...teve-hall.html

I’m always learning on this site- so go with nwGTS assessment, or do some research and post what you find here.

 

Well, I wonder how many late model 911's are sold to end users/private buyers as opposed to dealers through auctions. Last I heard, in Florida....at least in the county I live in you can't even buy a car at auction (online auctions excluded) unless you have a dealer's license so if that's still the case it complicates the pricing issue even further. And I should add that I'm not only looking at GTS pricing to get an idea of what's selling and for how much since I agree with you, it's a small slice of the overall 997, 991 and 992 market.

 

I take your word for it but my question remains without a rational explanation from anyone so far. If the manual premium is real across the board and not just among enthusiasts, why doesn't Porsche build more manuals? They're getting harder and harder to find as is argued here time and again. So it would seem like a win, win decision for Porsche to build more manuals.

So why don't they? If the premium over the PDK is what's argued here across the market as a whole, the manuals are much less expensive to produce, giving Porsche a boost to a profit margin all car builders already long for. Never mind what it must cost Porsche to keep replacing the somewhat fragile PDK that's under some kind of warranty.

 

Because mostly ******* buy them new. And, ******* love PDK. (Did you know it shifts faster than any human could?) The End.

 

How about the seller gives out his phone number in the YT video. That's a "link" to the seller, a pretty direct link wouldn't you say?

 

I'm not the source of truth by any means and have proven much of my own bs wrong over the years, but after scouring articles and the PET for differences in GTS part numbers and C2S X51 part numbers, I found not a one. Pete Stout mentioned a long time ago a bespoke sway bar for the GTS. After much debate here on RL, I went to my long time storage, pulled mine out for the part numbers to check and cross referenced them with the C2S (I have the GT2/GT3 adjustable ones on my car now). They were the same number. The ONLY difference I'm certain of is the C2S X51 gets a carbon airbox where the GTS's is molded plastic.