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Hi guys, so an update. Ran the toque loss adaption and no change. Still fails on the same but.
PV997 do you know how the other people have got thorough this as you mentioned that you have seen this fault a couple of times before ?
Unfortunately no as some people have a bad habit of asking for help and never following up when it gets resolved.
IMO it can only be in two areas; 1) a mechanical issue that is preventing the hydraulics from completing the routine (air in system, pressure leak, etc.) or 2) incompatible configuration issues with the TCU causing a fault. Beyond that I can't think of any other cause.
When I first started digging into this issue I found numerous reports of shops claiming that a new TCU was needed when the PDK was replaced. No real specifics on why, but just that the old TCU was "incompatible" with the new PDK for some never-defined reason. I strongly suspect there can be conflicting stored configuration items in the TCU that might be resolved by wiping the TCU clean and reinitializing it from scratch. Don't get wrong, I am not suggesting you try this as it's just a theory. But it might be something to think about.
Please do continue to follow up and thanks for keeping us in the loop.
Edit: Dumb question but I have to ask, are you sure it's the right valve body PN for the car?
Hi!
1. This thread is specifically about the PDK in the 9X7.
2. Is the Panamera PDK same as 9X7, or one of the wider VAG (like Audi) boxes? Some reading above addresses similar questions I think.
3. The errors P1731 are shift rod displacement errors?
4. Shift rod displacement errors are generated as per above descriptions, and may be heat (not 'reset') related. Typically though, they are dead dead, not sometimes just sick?
5. If the Panamera uses the same ZF gear set and shaft configuration, the replacement shift rod distance sensor described above may also be successful.
Just to start, as I am sure others will have more accurate ideas, vs my guesses...
The P1731 and P1732 errors are also shift rod displacement errors in the Panamera PDK. The Panamera transmission is similar to the 911 unit as it's also made by ZF, but it is a different transmission.
The good news is that the distance sensor is available from the factory for the Panamera PDK and it can be accessed by dropping the pan.
Hi PV997- First of all, Thx for the quick respons.
The slipping happens in ALL gears, so i thougt it might be something in commen.
I have taken a good look to your first post and tried to find some logic for slipping in all gears.
If we assume it would be the valve-body, I think it could be the white solenoid (pressure control valve 10) or/and system pressure-valve (14 in the drawing), what do you think?
But if the hydraulic oil pressure is to low, why are there no errors from the pressure ssensors ?!
Strange thing is that it only happens between 1700-2000 rpm, that's what i don't get .
When i'm cruising on 1800rpm, rpm fluctuate constantly (aprox 50à100 rpm). When i'm cruising on 2400rpm (rpm stable)...... then accelerate hard (without downshift) there is "no" slip and gear-change is perfectly.
Do you think i can rule out a bad clutch? Maybe not unimportant .... the slip is also worse with the new hydraulic oil (viscosity !?).
The access to a PIWIS will be difficult, because i don't know anyane who has one .
That's why a went to the dealer for the hydraulic oil change, because software is needed (usually i do everything myself).
I would like to have one, but i wouldn't know where to start (maybe i can do a search here on the forum ). I'm not familiar with car diagnoses, but i'm interested in it.
Hope my logic make sense
Have you tried just having the dealer run a new PDK calibration and adaptation? What you describe doesn't sound like something breaking but that the clutch action isn't properly calibrated to compensate for wear. See the first document located at the bottom of the main post, specifically section 3 (starting on page 13) titled "Remedial action and repair measures in the event of complaints relating to comfort (gearshift and drive-off quality)".
You can do this yourself with a PIWIS which is about $425 USD shipped (don't know about Europe pricing). Many of us that have them use this PIWIS and software with thanks to jjrichar at Planet 9.
@teevirdi Found this interesting comment regarding a P1872 (hydraulic teach-in fault) at the dealership when they were trying to update PDK software:
FYI – When they tried to update the software, some faults/errors came up P1749, P1872 and P1991 and the tech could not clear them. He contacted the regional Porsche Rep who told them about the update and was told to power down the car by disconnecting the battery. Since it was late afternoon (closing time) they let the car sit over night with the battery disconnected. The next morning the software was reloaded and update was successful, no faults or errors. I was told that if they could not clear the errors, then they would have to replace the DME control module, but that was not necessary.
Have you tried just having the dealer run a new PDK calibration and adaptation? What you describe doesn't sound like something breaking but that the clutch action isn't properly calibrated to compensate for wear. See the first document located at the bottom of the main post, specifically section 3 (starting on page 13) titled "Remedial action and repair measures in the event of complaints relating to comfort (gearshift and drive-off quality)".
You can do this yourself with a PIWIS which is about $425 USD shipped (don't know about Europe pricing). Many of us that have them use this PIWIS and software with thanks to jjrichar at Planet 9.
Hi PV997, my dealer said he has done the calibration after the oil change, but the slipping was worse after the oil-change .
Tomorrow i'm gone call some PDK experts (what T-design told me about) listen what they have to say.
I have checked the page for the piwis, but i think that's way beyond my ability. I can work "with" computers not program them .
If i would go for car diagnostics (what really interests me) i think, for the moment, i need something that i can use directly plug and play ( i'm just a humble mechanic )
Over time i will focus, and learn to work on car diagnostics, because that's needed to repair and replace parts.
Also, i wanne thank you for the advice and will keep you posted.
@teevirdi Found this interesting comment regarding a P1872 (hydraulic teach-in fault) at the dealership when they were trying to update PDK software:
FYI – When they tried to update the software, some faults/errors came up P1749, P1872 and P1991 and the tech could not clear them. He contacted the regional Porsche Rep who told them about the update and was told to power down the car by disconnecting the battery. Since it was late afternoon (closing time) they let the car sit over night with the battery disconnected. The next morning the software was reloaded and update was successful, no faults or errors. I was told that if they could not clear the errors, then they would have to replace the DME control module, but that was not necessary.
No harm in giving it a try if you have not already.
Will give this a try and let you know how i get on. Also do you know if i was to swap the transmission control unit from another car if it would work with out programming ?
Will give this a try and let you know how i get on. Also do you know if i was to swap the transmission control unit from another car if it would work with out programming ?
I've never tried it but check out page 2 or the SF5 t-shooting flow diagram (software faults) below, specifically for the P174B fault. The definition of this fault is "Invalid allocation of control unit and transmission hardware (cross-installation)" so it looks like it may cause a new fault. According to the diagram it can be corrected by reprogramming the TCU and possibly maybe even the ECU.
What's odd about this is the PDK transmission hardware is dumb as a stump, there's no way the TCU can tell it wasn't originally mated to the PDK. I suspect this error is actually caused by a mismatch between the ECU (DME) and the TCU, not the TCU and the PDK.
I agree that the repair was just related to the plastic cover. Just a bit concerned that the epoxi may have come off and found it's way into the valve body / solenoids. Pretty harsh environment.
I ordered a replacement Clutch 2 solenoid. Like you said, may as well try the easiest first. If that doesn't work I think I'll just go for replacing the whole valve body next. WIll report back when installed and calibrated.
Replaced the Clutch 2 solenoid. Got an OEM replacement part from California Transmission http://californiatransmission.com/ Great communication and quick shipping.
After replacement and refill (using the PIWIS) with new fluid I tried to run the calibration but it would not allow me since the old codes could not be cleared. I tried to drive it a few times hoping to clear them but no luck. Transmission shifted really good though with no dash lights. Smoother than before, especially 1-2. After the drive I tried to clear the codes again and after a few attempts to clear the codes it finally took, not sure why.
With the codes cleared I was able to complete the "Calibration after parts replacement". It took a few minutes longer than the estimation but completed successfully. For good measure I also completed the throttle valve and torque adaptation procedures and the adaptation drive sequence. Transmission continued to shift smoothly, so far so good...
Another bad PDK transmission! Need your opinion, please
Hi, I have a 09 porsche cayman S that does not go into gear at all. First I removed the valve body to inspect the solenoids and all measured the resistance you put on your guides table. So I don’t think is one of the solenoids. Also no codes related to the position rod sensor (hopefully) any ideas of what can be? Do you think is the tcm? I tried calibrating and it fail to calibrate. I will much appreciate your help thanks in advance.
UPDATE: So after a lot of discussion over our odd 5V reference issue, I can happily report that it was indeed resolved with a new sensor pack from T-Design!
After being traced to an internal short to ground, we performed the replacement, after which the actual values for the sensor pack were immediately back to normal followed by a successful calibration of the PDK on the first attempt. The 991 in question was repaired weeks ago, after which an extended test drive of several hundred miles was performed before releasing her back to her owner for the long drive back to Texas (car was shipped to us in FL due to a mutual friend).
We also replaced the two clutch pressure sensors while the transmission was out, in order to take care of any potential parts failures that would require the transmission being removed again in the near future. Our assumption is that any other issues with the hydraulic controller or solenoids individually can be handed through the transmission pan while still in the vehicle.
Interestingly, after discussing the additional third pressure sensor present in the 991s as opposed to the previous 997.2s, we found that this base Carrera only had the two sensors in the end. We assume this has to do with the vehicle being a base, non-S model. But, I guess time will tell as more repairs are completed in the future.
I just wanted to sincerely thank PV997, Vlad from T-Design, and everyone else involved in this mission to resolve PDK issues without the unnecessary full replacements that so many have faced in the past. I'm personally looking forward to helping as many owners as we can with proven solutions for their specific failures, as opposed to making the previous dreaded phone call for a simple sensor failure. Keep up the good fight!
I've never tried it but check out page 2 or the SF5 t-shooting flow diagram (software faults) below, specifically for the P174B fault. The definition of this fault is "Invalid allocation of control unit and transmission hardware (cross-installation)" so it looks like it may cause a new fault. According to the diagram it can be corrected by reprogramming the TCU and possibly maybe even the ECU.
What's odd about this is the PDK transmission hardware is dumb as a stump, there's no way the TCU can tell it wasn't originally mated to the PDK. I suspect this error is actually caused by a mismatch between the ECU (DME) and the TCU, not the TCU and the PDK.
still no good left the battery off over night, tried a software update on the PDK control unit. Still fails on the same part. Going to try and get another PIWIS and see if I get the same faults.
Towed e car to Porsche service on 1st nov 2021. Car still with them now, 5th nov they called and quoted us $28k usd to replace e entire transmission. Drove e car for just over 18month, engine failure last year already cost $12k to fix n this transmission failure, now we are requesting them for discount for this transmission replacement n give us extended warranty for all this major parts. Still waiting for their reply.
Originally Posted by boxsterke
Hi GTSpure, thx for helping me to diagnose my problem.
The problem only occurs between 1700-2000rpm. Above 2000 the car drives perfectly.
I will try to add a video .
The video, I hope it worked... https://youtu.be/oVN082eR7B8 (Slip between 1700-2000rpm)
In this video slip starts just under 2000rpm in this video.
Normally it's worse....
I thought about it a lot and also remember a similar problem was with Tiptronic. It does not look like a clutch slip in my opinion it is a cut (electrical malfunction). It can be related to the brain and transmission system. Try to check this issue.
Clutch slip happens while you are with a declaration and then the RPM goes up quickly - and is caught in gear. You have an RPM drop.
UPDATE: So after a lot of discussion over our odd 5V reference issue, I can happily report that it was indeed resolved with a new sensor pack from T-Design!
After being traced to an internal short to ground, we performed the replacement, after which the actual values for the sensor pack were immediately back to normal followed by a successful calibration of the PDK on the first attempt. The 991 in question was repaired weeks ago, after which an extended test drive of several hundred miles was performed before releasing her back to her owner for the long drive back to Texas (car was shipped to us in FL due to a mutual friend).
We also replaced the two clutch pressure sensors while the transmission was out, in order to take care of any potential parts failures that would require the transmission being removed again in the near future. Our assumption is that any other issues with the hydraulic controller or solenoids individually can be handed through the transmission pan while still in the vehicle.
Interestingly, after discussing the additional third pressure sensor present in the 991s as opposed to the previous 997.2s, we found that this base Carrera only had the two sensors in the end. We assume this has to do with the vehicle being a base, non-S model. But, I guess time will tell as more repairs are completed in the future.
I just wanted to sincerely thank PV997, Vlad from T-Design, and everyone else involved in this mission to resolve PDK issues without the unnecessary full replacements that so many have faced in the past. I'm personally looking forward to helping as many owners as we can with proven solutions for their specific failures, as opposed to making the previous dreaded phone call for a simple sensor failure. Keep up the good fight!
Great to hear your update. Where is your shop? I am in FL also.
11-04-2021, 12:23 PM
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