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Hi, I have a 2015 Porsche macan S with 115k km on it and the car is delay shifting when stopped. It doesn’t happen at every stop but when it does it will take 5-10 seconds to start while the engine revs.
Dealership said there’s an issue with clutch #2 and error code p2789 is showing and the only solution is to replace the transmission at a cost of $23k.
Any ideas how we can DIY or what the problem could be? I started working from home once covid hit and have only been driving the car 2-3x a week to run errands the past 2 years so dropping this kind of money on a repair is heartbreaking.
Transmission is Audi derived. DL501, there are parts available from clutches, to mechanotronic to full rebuilds for $5-7.500
Personally I would try a repair kit first (9A7 301 901 00) common fix on Audi cars - Audi part maybe cheaper, then you can move onto mechanatronic ... https://www.ebay.com/itm/113922391476
2011 Porsche 911 C4S - 997.2 57,073 miles
ZF Transmission - 7DT45 Fault code: P1731 Shift Rod 1 Displacement Sensors Repair Facility: Beck’s European – Scottsdale AZ Aftermarket Sensor: Vlad’s T-Design Sensor
9/10/2021 - Garaged after 360 mile trip to Porsche Togetherfest - Indianapolis
10/15/2021 - Error p1731 Shift Rod 1 Displacement Sensors / Code fired upon start up
10/15 - 11/16/2021-
Researched issue, sent dozen + inquiries/calls to independent shops: Three responses. Los Angeles sounded vague and not credible. Miami sounded promising but Miami P-car community voiced skepticism. Scottsdale (Beck's European) articulated cogent analysis of situation and possible remedy starting with independent oil analysis.
12/3/2021 - Oil analysis came back clean
12/7/2021 - Scheduled repair with Beck's
12/12/2021 - Trailered 997 from IL
12/13/2021 – Arrived AZ late evening
12/15-17/2021 - Three full days for repair (plus 60K maintenance items). Vlad's T-Design sensor installed. Left AZ 12/17 5pm.
12/19/2021 - Arrived IL. Car runs fantastic. 12 month warranty
The Beck's European team did exactly what they agreed to do (and then some). Frank Beck holds a treasury of Porsche knowledge - plus he knows how to run a business (Too few people command both - absent one or the other makes for some terrific pain points). He set expectations and delivered upon them. This is no small thing when the customer invested the time, effort and expense of making a 3600 mile out-and-back trailer shot over the course of seven days. While the expense of this repair is not what I would call enjoyable, all other aspects of this adventure were a blast:
1. NOT spending $24,000 on the absurd proposition of a disposable transmission
2. Having a quality repair performed by Frank's team of technicians - on time and on budget
3. Frank's team (Kimberly, Kenna, front desk staff) were welcoming, friendly and professional
4. Nothing was done behind a curtain - Information was freely shared so I always knew what was going on
5. Enjoyed Frank's style and sense of humor - made this fun
6. Learned a ton
Look, it's easy to spend a lot of money on Porsches, especially when this type of thing happens. Unfortunately, it is part of the proposition of owning performance cars. We own the good and the bad. Holding this as truth, you may as well have fun doing it (or else buy a minivan). Frank and company turned a difficult situation into an amazing experience.
A word of advice - If you run into this situation (and worse, have no warranty like me) don't entertain the pity party. Knuckle down on this s**t and power through it. Research options (you’ve made the most important step in finding this RL thread), remove emotion and engage 100% with what's right for your circumstances. Dismiss frustration, and if you have a "moment" don't take it out on the legitimate repair community who have put themselves out there to help provide alternatives. Mind you, I'm not saying the repair folks are acting out of altruism - there is a profit component to this which is totally reasonable. Just use caution and common sense as you unravel your own adventure. There may be people, beyond Porsche and ZF, who try to exploit the situation.
Thanks PV997, Vlad at T-Design, Beck’s European and all others who provided the knowledge and guidance on this issue.
Sounds like Beck's could go full time repairing PDK's if they wanted. There is definitely a niche that needs to be filled and as the volume goes up, the price can come down. It also could help increase the value of PDK cars in the long run because it removes the scary $25,000 "what if" that kept me from buying a 997 PDK car. The repair, while not cheap, exists now when just two years ago when I was in the market, did not.
Thanks to all involved who pierced the veil of mystery and secrecy to make this possible. Kudo's
A word of advice - If you run into this situation (and worse, have no warranty like me) don't entertain the pity party. Knuckle down on this s**t and power through it. Research options (you’ve made the most important step in finding this RL thread), remove emotion and engage 100% with what's right for your circumstances. Dismiss frustration, and if you have a "moment" don't take it out on the legitimate repair community who have put themselves out there to help provide alternatives. Mind you, I'm not saying the repair folks are acting out of altruism - there is a profit component to this which is totally reasonable. Just use caution and common sense as you unravel your own adventure. There may be people, beyond Porsche and ZF, who try to exploit the situation.
Wow, I think I just met my soul brother. Amen to every word of it, and not just on stuff like this. Someone told me pretty much exactly those words many years ago, it was what I needed to hear at the exact right moment. It literally changed my life and those sentiments now influence virtually every decision I make.
Thanks for posting @Rfjohnson, and I'm glad you found the thread helpful and are back on the road. Merry Christmas!
Edit: BTW, Doing your own research doesn't necessarily mean doing it yourself. It can be if that's the right solution, but it mainly means gathering enough information so one can make an informed decision. The sad fact is that the self-appointed "experts" often are full of it, and have an ulterior motive (usually trying to separate you from your money). How many times have people been told by a Porsche dealership that a PDK "can't" be repaired? It's obvious BS, but I can't tell you how many times people uncritically echoed what the dealership told them on these boards. The fact is that they "won't" repair it, and won't make parts or instructions available, not that its unrepairable. Huge difference.
Hi there new member here with a miami blue base boxster with 11,000 mile and going
Recently the PDK developed a massive leak where 5 litres of fresh pentosin filled at 10.000 mi has only 3 litre left upon inspection drainage (oil pan was left untouched), the pan and sump bolt literally drenched (pics attached)
My indy retorqued all the pan bolt, wiped clean the oil residue and use the good old talcum powder leakspotter, it was then identified the breather vent plug? (circled in yellow) as the culprit
Has anyone experience leak at this spot? Indy said parts not available and will try repair route (most likely a spring/ ball was stuck open and pissing out oil instead of excess tranny housing pressure) Red circle White circled plug with entire tranny zoomed out for ref. Talcum power leakspotter - leak source spotted Leak source circled in yellow and described as breather ventilation valve, replacement parts seemed to be unavailable, anyone with enough experience with this? Can it just be removed and then plug it shut for good?
Curious if any of you guys have come across this before and can add any additional info. Over in another thread a guy noticed seepage from a plug on the side of his PDK. His worthless dealership is telling him the only way to fix it is to replace the PDK for $18k.
The white arrow show the seepage location on his 997.2 PDK (not his transmission shown but one out of the car for clarity):
Based on his description it seems to be clutch fluid and not gear oil. This show shows a cutaway of where the plug goes (white arrow). Based on this I think it's probably part of the hydraulic circuit that controls the shift rods. Has anyone removed this plug and knows what's behind it? I'm wondering if there's a check valve/metering orifice or something spring loaded behind it. We are trying to figure out of the plug can have thread sealant or something similar applied to fix the seepage. I'm concerned that if the plug is removed entirely other stuff (springs, check *****, etc.) could fall out.
Any thought or comments welcome. If this is part of the hydraulic circuit it probably requires a PIWIS to run the fill procedure after removal to purge air.
I might be having the same issues but on the 718 boxster base
Looked up online from 911uk and downloaded some photos of what the plug looks like (from 997.2) atleast - and likely to be the same in the 981 and 718 since its all principally the same ZF 7DT tranny Part no 9G1 321 885 00 - pics attached
solution for the long term - epoxy resin glue - pics attached - according to the guy he had done 20.000kms no issues just keep an eye on the epoxy glue and general undercarriage conditions to see if futher leaks had developed
I am about to attempt the glue fix -
Let me know what you think Epoxy glued Talcum powder test identified the leak spot on the 718 boxster (yellow circle) The breather off 997.2 -- and likely to be same as for 981 and 718 The breather off a 997.2 -- hollow shaft bolt only - no ***** no springs-- and likely to be same as for 981 and 718 Breather vent valve
Just a bit concerning to me. Using epoxy to cover a breather could lead to higher internal pressures resulting in blown seals. Before I did that I'd look into McMaster Carr to see if they have a bolt you could substitute for the breather. At least that's a bit more reversible. Or epoxy just the hole in the breather.
Hi there new member here with a miami blue base boxster with 11,000 mile and going
Recently the PDK developed a massive leak where 5 litres of fresh pentosin filled at 10.000 mi has only 3 litre left upon inspection drainage (oil pan was left untouched), the pan and sump bolt literally drenched (pics attached)
My indy retorqued all the pan bolt, wiped clean the oil residue and use the good old talcum powder leakspotter, it was then identified the breather vent plug? (circled in yellow) as the culprit
Has anyone experience leak at this spot? Indy said parts not available and will try repair route (most likely a spring/ ball was stuck open and pissing out oil instead of excess tranny housing pressure)
Over in the other thread that's discussed in the quote in comment #743, the guy was told by the dealer that if that bolt leaks it means an internal seal has failed. Sorry as I don't remember the exact thread but you may be able to find if if you search around.
This is *speculation*, but the idea would be that there is clutch fluid pressure on one side of the seal and atmospheric pressure (air) on the other side. The air is vented to that bolt as some sort of orifice. When the seal fails then clutch fluid gets on the other side of the seal where only air should be. Since it's under pressure it leaks out the bolt.
Again, this is all speculation based on some cryptic comments from a dealership and could be totally wrong. If it's true though, the down side of sealing the bolt is that now you have fluid under pressure on both sides of the seal. I suppose having that vented air on one side of the seal was done for a reason, but it may be something benign like it aids in purging air from the system after drain/fill (rather than some critical function).
Curious if your guy who said he had it that way for 20,000 km noticed any issue with shifting or clutch engagement. If so it could be indicative of a fluid pressure equalization issue. If not it seems like it's worth a try as the "solution" is to replace the transmission according to the dealer. Agree with Wayne's comment that there is probably a more elegant fix that covering the whole thing with epoxy.
Please let us know how it goes.
UPDATE: I remember now where the dealer was quoting from, it's the first document attached at the bottom of the main post (factory PDK t-shooting doc). Apparently it's the radial shaft seal on the driveshaft that the breather leads to.
Over in the other thread that's discussed in the quote in comment #743, the guy was told by the dealer that if that bolt leaks it means an internal seal has failed. Sorry as I don't remember the exact thread but you may be able to find if if you search around.
This is *speculation*, but the idea would be that there is clutch fluid pressure on one side of the seal and atmospheric pressure (air) on the other side. The air is vented to that bolt as some sort of orifice. When the seal fails then clutch fluid gets on the other side of the seal where only air should be. Since it's under pressure it leaks out the bolt.
Again, this is all speculation based on some cryptic comments from a dealership and could be totally wrong. If it's true though, the down side of sealing the bolt is that now you have fluid under pressure on both sides of the seal. I suppose having that vented air on one side of the seal was done for a reason, but it may be something benign like it aids in purging air from the system after drain/fill (rather than some critical function).
Curious if your guy who said he had it that way for 20,000 km noticed any issue with shifting or clutch engagement. If so it could be indicative of a fluid pressure equalization issue. If not it seems like it's worth a try as the "solution" is to replace the transmission according to the dealer. Agree with Wayne's comment that there is probably a more elegant fix that covering the whole thing with epoxy.
Please let us know how it goes.
UPDATE: I remember now where the dealer was quoting from, it's the first document attached at the bottom of the main post (factory PDK t-shooting doc). Apparently it's the radial shaft seal on the driveshaft that the breather leads to.
talked to the only porsche centre in the town for goodwill warranty since it has passed it by only 1 month...such is life when serious issue like this occured with such timing.
I suppose the unelegant glue repair is on the cards based on the testimony off 911uk forum poster (see pics below) the shaft seal is so far and remote from the bolt location in the housing...it is hard to believe that a leak from the seal can travel that far within the housing,(unless there is a channel ommited by the tranny cutout model) the bolt seemed to go into shift rod guides within the pdk housing I suppose the unelegant glue repair is on the cards based on the testimony of an 911uk forum poster I suppose the unelegant glue repair is on the cards based on the testimony of an 911uk forum poster - "done 12k miles since the glue job - car going great so just enjoying every drive"
the shaft seal is so far and remote from the bolt location in the housing...it is hard to believe that a leak from the seal can travel that far within the housing,(unless there is a channel ommited by the tranny cutout model)
Based on some photos, the bolt seemed to go into shift rod guides within the pdk housing, which again made the "leak from shaft seals" sounds even less credible and more towards "benign function" maybe its only function is to check shift rod travel during production QC?
Anyway im probably in denial over the fact of possibly paying PDK out of pocket.
the shaft seal is so far and remote from the bolt location in the housing...it is hard to believe that a leak from the seal can travel that far within the housing,(unless there is a channel ommited by the tranny cutout model)
Based on some photos, the bolt seemed to go into shift rod guides within the pdk housing, which again made the "leak from shaft seals" sounds even less credible and more towards "benign function" maybe its only function is to check shift rod travel during production QC?
Anyway im probably in denial over the fact of possibly paying PDK out of pocket.
I hear you, the shaft seal thing sounds wonky to me also but I don't know why Porsche would lie about that in their service bulletin to dealers. The official "fix" is to replace the transmission so it doesn't really matter what the cause is as there's no official repair. So I don't see the rationale for lying about the cause but who knows with Porsche.
Regardless, I'd definitely try and seal it before replacing the transmission. In fact I'd try every redneck engineering trick I could think of before I even considered shelling out $18k to fix a fluid lead. When I suggested a more elegant fix I meant something like sealing the breather hole in the bolt with epoxy and putting a crush washer (or O-ring) under the bolt head. That way you can still get the bolt out if needed without having to chip a way all the epoxy. If it doesn't work you can still go the epoxy route.
Let us know how it goes as we are likely to see more of these as the early PDKs get older.
12-22-2021, 06:53 PM
