Guide to Repairing a PDK Transmission
11-01-2021, 05:32 PM
#676
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
What specifically did you replace, was it the valve body? Also did you use the PIWIS fill procedure with the fluid to ensure there are no air pockets?
This is like the fourth time we've seen this HYTI error recently and there has to be a common cause. Anything unusual about your PIWIS?
11-01-2021, 05:45 PM
#677
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See page 14 of the same document I mention above for the torque loss adaptation process. I'll be shocked if it makes a difference but it's worth a try.
What specifically did you replace, was it the valve body? Also did you use the PIWIS fill procedure with the fluid to ensure there are no air pockets?
This is like the fourth time we've seen this HYTI error recently and there has to be a common cause. Anything unusual about your PIWIS?
What specifically did you replace, was it the valve body? Also did you use the PIWIS fill procedure with the fluid to ensure there are no air pockets?
This is like the fourth time we've seen this HYTI error recently and there has to be a common cause. Anything unusual about your PIWIS?
Replaced the valve body, got a brand new from Porsche, thats the other thing when going trough the fill procedure that also failed on the bleed part but let’s you go through to the fill part.
My piwis is a clone but never had problems with it. Have done loads of programming with it.
11-02-2021, 12:28 AM
#678
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Replaced the valve body, got a brand new from Porsche, thats the other thing when going trough the fill procedure that also failed on the bleed part but let’s you go through to the fill part.
My piwis is a clone but never had problems with it. Have done loads of programming with it.
My piwis is a clone but never had problems with it. Have done loads of programming with it.
It might be a waste of time but I'd try to run the fill procedure again to try and get through it cleanly. The engine torque loss adaptation is is starting to make a bit more sense to me as I think it could be part of the overall PDK adaptation table update process. This is all speculation but I'm thinking It gives the algorithm two points (low engine load and high engine load) that are used as a starting point in developing the adaptation coefficients.
Porsche sure likes their secrets.
11-02-2021, 02:10 PM
#679
Hi boxterke - Is there a specific gear pattern where the slipping happens or does not happen? For example, does it only happen when in odd gears but not even gears? The main post section on the valve body describes how the different solenoids affect different gears, if there's a pattern it's very helpful in localizing the issue.
Aside from that, you really need access to a PIWIS so you can stripchart the various sensors and solenoid currents to figure out the cause. My guess is it could be a sticky solenoid or valve within the valve body but without more information it's hard to narrow it down.
Aside from that, you really need access to a PIWIS so you can stripchart the various sensors and solenoid currents to figure out the cause. My guess is it could be a sticky solenoid or valve within the valve body but without more information it's hard to narrow it down.
The slipping happens in ALL gears, so i thougt it might be something in commen.
I have taken a good look to your first post and tried to find some logic for slipping in all gears.
If we assume it would be the valve-body, I think it could be the white solenoid (pressure control valve 10) or/and system pressure-valve (14 in the drawing), what do you think?
But if the hydraulic oil pressure is to low, why are there no errors from the pressure ssensors ?!
Strange thing is that it only happens between 1700-2000 rpm, that's what i don't get
.When i'm cruising on 1800rpm, rpm fluctuate constantly (aprox 50à100 rpm). When i'm cruising on 2400rpm (rpm stable)...... then accelerate hard (without downshift) there is "no" slip and gear-change is perfectly.
Do you think i can rule out a bad clutch? Maybe not unimportant .... the slip is also worse with the new hydraulic oil (viscosity !?).
The access to a PIWIS will be difficult, because i don't know anyane who has one
.That's why a went to the dealer for the hydraulic oil change, because software is needed (usually i do everything myself).
I would like to have one, but i wouldn't know where to start (maybe i can do a search here on the forum
). I'm not familiar with car diagnoses, but i'm interested in it.Hope my logic make sense
11-03-2021, 02:46 AM
#680
Hi boxterke - Is there a specific gear pattern where the slipping happens or does not happen? For example, does it only happen when in odd gears but not even gears? The main post section on the valve body describes how the different solenoids affect different gears, if there's a pattern it's very helpful in localizing the issue.
Aside from that, you really need access to a PIWIS so you can stripchart the various sensors and solenoid currents to figure out the cause. My guess is it could be a sticky solenoid or valve within the valve body but without more information it's hard to narrow it down.
Aside from that, you really need access to a PIWIS so you can stripchart the various sensors and solenoid currents to figure out the cause. My guess is it could be a sticky solenoid or valve within the valve body but without more information it's hard to narrow it down.
The slipping happens in all of the gears, so I thought it might be something in common.
I have taken a good look to your first post and tried to find some logic for slipping in all gears.
If we assume it would be the valve-body, think it could be the white solenoid (pressure control valve 10) or/and system-pressure valve 14 in the drawing, what do you think?
But if the hydraulic oil pressure is to low, why are there no errors from the pressure sensors ?!
Strange thing is, that it only happens between 1700-2000rpm, that’s what I don’t get :-).
When I’m cruising on 1800rpm, rpm fluctuate constantly (aprox 50à100rpm).
When I’m cruising on 2400rpm (rpm is stable) …. thenaccelerate hard (without downshift) there is no slip and change gears are perfect. Do you think I can rule out a bad clutch?
Maybe not unimportant… The slip is also worse with the new hydraulic oil.
The access to a piwis will be difficult, because I don’t know anyone who has one.
That’s why I went to the dealer for the hydraulic oil change, because software is needed.
I Usually do everything myself (when I don’t need software).
I would like to have one, but I wouldn’t know where to start (maybe I can do a search here on the forum :-). I’mnot familiar with car diagnoses, but am interested in it.
Hope my logic make sense ;-).
11-03-2021, 11:07 AM
#681
Hi PV997- First of all, thx for the quick respons.
The slipping happens in all of the gears, so I thought it might be something in common.
I have taken a good look to your first post and tried to find some logic for slipping in all gears.
If we assume it would be the valve-body, think it could be the white solenoid (pressure control valve 10) or/and system-pressure valve 14 in the drawing, what do you think?
But if the hydraulic oil pressure is to low, why are there no errors from the pressure sensors ?!
Strange thing is, that it only happens between 1700-2000rpm, that’s what I don’t get :-).
When I’m cruising on 1800rpm, rpm fluctuate constantly (aprox 50à100rpm).
When I’m cruising on 2400rpm (rpm is stable) …. thenaccelerate hard (without downshift) there is no slip and change gears are perfect. Do you think I can rule out a bad clutch?
Maybe not unimportant… The slip is also worse with the new hydraulic oil.
The access to a piwis will be difficult, because I don’t know anyone who has one.
That’s why I went to the dealer for the hydraulic oil change, because software is needed.
I Usually do everything myself (when I don’t need software).
I would like to have one, but I wouldn’t know where to start (maybe I can do a search here on the forum :-). I’mnot familiar with car diagnoses, but am interested in it.
Hope my logic make sense ;-).
The slipping happens in all of the gears, so I thought it might be something in common.
I have taken a good look to your first post and tried to find some logic for slipping in all gears.
If we assume it would be the valve-body, think it could be the white solenoid (pressure control valve 10) or/and system-pressure valve 14 in the drawing, what do you think?
But if the hydraulic oil pressure is to low, why are there no errors from the pressure sensors ?!
Strange thing is, that it only happens between 1700-2000rpm, that’s what I don’t get :-).
When I’m cruising on 1800rpm, rpm fluctuate constantly (aprox 50à100rpm).
When I’m cruising on 2400rpm (rpm is stable) …. thenaccelerate hard (without downshift) there is no slip and change gears are perfect. Do you think I can rule out a bad clutch?
Maybe not unimportant… The slip is also worse with the new hydraulic oil.
The access to a piwis will be difficult, because I don’t know anyone who has one.
That’s why I went to the dealer for the hydraulic oil change, because software is needed.
I Usually do everything myself (when I don’t need software).
I would like to have one, but I wouldn’t know where to start (maybe I can do a search here on the forum :-). I’mnot familiar with car diagnoses, but am interested in it.
Hope my logic make sense ;-).
As is well known, PDK is based on a manual transmission system, therefore, for example, in parking lots / traffic jams, it is recommended to use manual mode so as not to cause a gear reduction combined with a throttle.
Try uploading a video link that can help us understand your situation.
Hope I helped a little.
Last edited by GTSpure; 11-03-2021 at 11:20 AM.
11-03-2021, 11:55 AM
#682
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May be this time you do need a shop that does have proper diagnostic tools... Our map shows one in NL, that I know does work on PDKs. Not sure how close it's to you
http://t-design9.com/porsche_PDK_sen...shops_map.html
http://t-design9.com/porsche_PDK_sen...shops_map.html
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T-Design9 : Mods and ergonomic accessories bespoke designed for Porsche cars
Memory Modules : remember SC **** settings; A/S/S, PSE, Spoiler, Sport/+ buttons
Phone Mounts : keep your phone up and close and charged
Cupdholders, Sunglass Holsters and more at T-Design9.com
Last edited by t-design; 11-03-2021 at 11:56 AM.
11-03-2021, 03:55 PM
#683
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Hmmm, not sure what you mean by "failed the bleed part" during the fill but it sounds odd. It's been close to a year since I last used the fill procedure but I don't remember a bleed part and there were definitely no failures. I wonder if you have air trapped in there, that is compressing and causing the hydraulics to not run the full range during calibration. According to your screen shots it's failing during the shift rod calibration which I'm pretty sure is the first part of the calibration.
It might be a waste of time but I'd try to run the fill procedure again to try and get through it cleanly. The engine torque loss adaptation is is starting to make a bit more sense to me as I think it could be part of the overall PDK adaptation table update process. This is all speculation but I'm thinking It gives the algorithm two points (low engine load and high engine load) that are used as a starting point in developing the adaptation coefficients.
Porsche sure likes their secrets.
It might be a waste of time but I'd try to run the fill procedure again to try and get through it cleanly. The engine torque loss adaptation is is starting to make a bit more sense to me as I think it could be part of the overall PDK adaptation table update process. This is all speculation but I'm thinking It gives the algorithm two points (low engine load and high engine load) that are used as a starting point in developing the adaptation coefficients.
Porsche sure likes their secrets.
PV997 do you know how the other people have got thorough this as you mentioned that you have seen this fault a couple of times before ?
11-04-2021, 04:28 AM
#684
Same thing happened to me. Porsche just keep asking for more $$
=Darklockz;16649723]hi, all..
first.. thank you for this page! and sorry for my broken english i do my best
Ok, here's my problem, panamera turbo 2012... one day, cold start, no reverse
let the car get up to temp, no reverse still.. stop the engine, re-start.. i can now reverse
tried to run around the block, no problem at all everything seems fine.. so i call porsche rivesud
i ask them to check trans oil level.. the tech gets mad tell me they wont do it but for 400$ they will diag the car 2 hours
i accept.. but before i cleared the codes and try the car again.. no problem at all
2 days later i drive the car to the dealer (code didnt show up since, and the car shift like it should)
the next morning i receive the call from porsche rivesud, 4000$ bill "theres something physically broken inside the trans" they say
i've never seen a internally broken trans engaging as the oil gets hot, so im very sceptical about it.. decided to take the car back like that
when i came to pay the diag and talk with them.. they told me previous owner probably didnt change the oil and thats it, but refuse to even look at it
for now, i didnt read the tech paper and didnt know they NEVER could reproduce the problem while the car was at the dealer ( 2 day )
the car had p1731 and p1732 stored so they could see it but couldnt reproduce the problem at all.. the tech did check the value and say everything was normal.
he says " i suggest starting with the replacement of the sensors" the sensor they want to change is the temperature sensor
So, i take the car back to my house ( about 30 min from the dealer ) with no problem at all. drive the car for 3 days and then one day after an hour it get stock on the 7th gear
manage to slowly get on the side of the road, ignition off, ingnition on.. i get 2nd gear and park the car and leave it at the gas station for an hour or 2..
came back, 0 problem at all car drive to the house without a single problem again.. codes are always the same p1731, p1732, p0700
the car will drive ok for X amount of time, and then suddenly stick to one gear till i stop the car and then refuse to engage whatever the gear or the gear selection
sometime it will do it on a cold start too.. the only way ive found to be able to make it engage again is wait time.. like it reset itself
I was very frustrated at porsche dealer to "change whatever" for "whatever reason" without testing anything.. like pay and we'll see how it goes..
Im not that type of guy, and my logic cant handle this kind of thing... so i walked away and found this page!
now im trying to find information on how to get to the tcu... cant find anything on 970.. anyone have info on this?
thanks in advance![/QUOTE]
=Darklockz;16649723]hi, all..
first.. thank you for this page! and sorry for my broken english i do my best
Ok, here's my problem, panamera turbo 2012... one day, cold start, no reverse
let the car get up to temp, no reverse still.. stop the engine, re-start.. i can now reverse
tried to run around the block, no problem at all everything seems fine.. so i call porsche rivesud
i ask them to check trans oil level.. the tech gets mad tell me they wont do it but for 400$ they will diag the car 2 hours
i accept.. but before i cleared the codes and try the car again.. no problem at all
2 days later i drive the car to the dealer (code didnt show up since, and the car shift like it should)
the next morning i receive the call from porsche rivesud, 4000$ bill "theres something physically broken inside the trans" they say
i've never seen a internally broken trans engaging as the oil gets hot, so im very sceptical about it.. decided to take the car back like that
when i came to pay the diag and talk with them.. they told me previous owner probably didnt change the oil and thats it, but refuse to even look at it
for now, i didnt read the tech paper and didnt know they NEVER could reproduce the problem while the car was at the dealer ( 2 day )
the car had p1731 and p1732 stored so they could see it but couldnt reproduce the problem at all.. the tech did check the value and say everything was normal.
he says " i suggest starting with the replacement of the sensors" the sensor they want to change is the temperature sensor
So, i take the car back to my house ( about 30 min from the dealer ) with no problem at all. drive the car for 3 days and then one day after an hour it get stock on the 7th gear
manage to slowly get on the side of the road, ignition off, ingnition on.. i get 2nd gear and park the car and leave it at the gas station for an hour or 2..
came back, 0 problem at all car drive to the house without a single problem again.. codes are always the same p1731, p1732, p0700
the car will drive ok for X amount of time, and then suddenly stick to one gear till i stop the car and then refuse to engage whatever the gear or the gear selection
sometime it will do it on a cold start too.. the only way ive found to be able to make it engage again is wait time.. like it reset itself
I was very frustrated at porsche dealer to "change whatever" for "whatever reason" without testing anything.. like pay and we'll see how it goes..
Im not that type of guy, and my logic cant handle this kind of thing... so i walked away and found this page!
now im trying to find information on how to get to the tcu... cant find anything on 970.. anyone have info on this?
thanks in advance![/QUOTE]
11-04-2021, 04:56 AM
#685
Three Wheelin'
Hi!
1. This thread is specifically about the PDK in the 9X7.
2. Is the Panamera PDK same as 9X7, or one of the wider VAG (like Audi) boxes? Some reading above addresses similar questions I think.
3. The errors P1731 are shift rod displacement errors?
4. Shift rod displacement errors are generated as per above descriptions, and may be heat (not 'reset') related. Typically though, they are dead dead, not sometimes just sick?
5. If the Panamera uses the same ZF gear set and shaft configuration, the replacement shift rod distance sensor described above may also be successful.
Just to start, as I am sure others will have more accurate ideas, vs my guesses...
1. This thread is specifically about the PDK in the 9X7.
2. Is the Panamera PDK same as 9X7, or one of the wider VAG (like Audi) boxes? Some reading above addresses similar questions I think.
3. The errors P1731 are shift rod displacement errors?
4. Shift rod displacement errors are generated as per above descriptions, and may be heat (not 'reset') related. Typically though, they are dead dead, not sometimes just sick?
5. If the Panamera uses the same ZF gear set and shaft configuration, the replacement shift rod distance sensor described above may also be successful.
Just to start, as I am sure others will have more accurate ideas, vs my guesses...
11-04-2021, 05:07 AM
#686
totally agree... I own a 970 , under warranty , but engine failure , they say it’s wear n tear no warranty , $$$$$, now transmission gone , they simply say $$$$
hi, all..
first.. thank you for this page! and sorry for my broken english i do my best
Ok, here's my problem, panamera turbo 2012... one day, cold start, no reverse
let the car get up to temp, no reverse still.. stop the engine, re-start.. i can now reverse
tried to run around the block, no problem at all everything seems fine.. so i call porsche rivesud
i ask them to check trans oil level.. the tech gets mad tell me they wont do it but for 400$ they will diag the car 2 hours
i accept.. but before i cleared the codes and try the car again.. no problem at all
2 days later i drive the car to the dealer (code didnt show up since, and the car shift like it should)
the next morning i receive the call from porsche rivesud, 4000$ bill "theres something physically broken inside the trans" they say
i've never seen a internally broken trans engaging as the oil gets hot, so im very sceptical about it.. decided to take the car back like that
when i came to pay the diag and talk with them.. they told me previous owner probably didnt change the oil and thats it, but refuse to even look at it
for now, i didnt read the tech paper and didnt know they NEVER could reproduce the problem while the car was at the dealer ( 2 day )
the car had p1731 and p1732 stored so they could see it but couldnt reproduce the problem at all.. the tech did check the value and say everything was normal.
he says " i suggest starting with the replacement of the sensors" the sensor they want to change is the temperature sensor
So, i take the car back to my house ( about 30 min from the dealer ) with no problem at all. drive the car for 3 days and then one day after an hour it get stock on the 7th gear
manage to slowly get on the side of the road, ignition off, ingnition on.. i get 2nd gear and park the car and leave it at the gas station for an hour or 2..
came back, 0 problem at all car drive to the house without a single problem again.. codes are always the same p1731, p1732, p0700
the car will drive ok for X amount of time, and then suddenly stick to one gear till i stop the car and then refuse to engage whatever the gear or the gear selection
sometime it will do it on a cold start too.. the only way ive found to be able to make it engage again is wait time.. like it reset itself
I was very frustrated at porsche dealer to "change whatever" for "whatever reason" without testing anything.. like pay and we'll see how it goes..
Im not that type of guy, and my logic cant handle this kind of thing... so i walked away and found this page!
now im trying to find information on how to get to the tcu... cant find anything on 970.. anyone have info on this?
thanks in advance!
first.. thank you for this page! and sorry for my broken english i do my best
Ok, here's my problem, panamera turbo 2012... one day, cold start, no reverse
let the car get up to temp, no reverse still.. stop the engine, re-start.. i can now reverse
tried to run around the block, no problem at all everything seems fine.. so i call porsche rivesud
i ask them to check trans oil level.. the tech gets mad tell me they wont do it but for 400$ they will diag the car 2 hours
i accept.. but before i cleared the codes and try the car again.. no problem at all
2 days later i drive the car to the dealer (code didnt show up since, and the car shift like it should)
the next morning i receive the call from porsche rivesud, 4000$ bill "theres something physically broken inside the trans" they say
i've never seen a internally broken trans engaging as the oil gets hot, so im very sceptical about it.. decided to take the car back like that
when i came to pay the diag and talk with them.. they told me previous owner probably didnt change the oil and thats it, but refuse to even look at it
for now, i didnt read the tech paper and didnt know they NEVER could reproduce the problem while the car was at the dealer ( 2 day )
the car had p1731 and p1732 stored so they could see it but couldnt reproduce the problem at all.. the tech did check the value and say everything was normal.
he says " i suggest starting with the replacement of the sensors" the sensor they want to change is the temperature sensor
So, i take the car back to my house ( about 30 min from the dealer ) with no problem at all. drive the car for 3 days and then one day after an hour it get stock on the 7th gear
manage to slowly get on the side of the road, ignition off, ingnition on.. i get 2nd gear and park the car and leave it at the gas station for an hour or 2..
came back, 0 problem at all car drive to the house without a single problem again.. codes are always the same p1731, p1732, p0700
the car will drive ok for X amount of time, and then suddenly stick to one gear till i stop the car and then refuse to engage whatever the gear or the gear selection
sometime it will do it on a cold start too.. the only way ive found to be able to make it engage again is wait time.. like it reset itself
I was very frustrated at porsche dealer to "change whatever" for "whatever reason" without testing anything.. like pay and we'll see how it goes..
Im not that type of guy, and my logic cant handle this kind of thing... so i walked away and found this page!
now im trying to find information on how to get to the tcu... cant find anything on 970.. anyone have info on this?
thanks in advance!
11-04-2021, 10:19 AM
#687
Does the RPM jump / hesitate while accelerating or downshifting?
As is well known, PDK is based on a manual transmission system, therefore, for example, in parking lots / traffic jams, it is recommended to use manual mode so as not to cause a gear reduction combined with a throttle.
Try uploading a video link that can help us understand your situation.
Hope I helped a little.
As is well known, PDK is based on a manual transmission system, therefore, for example, in parking lots / traffic jams, it is recommended to use manual mode so as not to cause a gear reduction combined with a throttle.
Try uploading a video link that can help us understand your situation.
Hope I helped a little.
The problem only occurs between 1700-2000rpm. Above 2000 the car drives perfectly.
I will try to add a video
.
11-04-2021, 10:49 AM
#689
Does the RPM jump / hesitate while accelerating or downshifting?
As is well known, PDK is based on a manual transmission system, therefore, for example, in parking lots / traffic jams, it is recommended to use manual mode so as not to cause a gear reduction combined with a throttle.
Try uploading a video link that can help us understand your situation.
Hope I helped a little.
As is well known, PDK is based on a manual transmission system, therefore, for example, in parking lots / traffic jams, it is recommended to use manual mode so as not to cause a gear reduction combined with a throttle.
Try uploading a video link that can help us understand your situation.
Hope I helped a little.
In this video slip starts just under 2000rpm in this video.
Normally it's worse....
11-04-2021, 11:34 AM
#690
May be this time you do need a shop that does have proper diagnostic tools... Our map shows one in NL, that I know does work on PDKs. Not sure how close it's to you
http://t-design9.com/porsche_PDK_sen...shops_map.html
http://t-design9.com/porsche_PDK_sen...shops_map.html
.Try to contact them it's not far from where i live, 110km (it calls "PORSCHE-Versnellingsbak-Revisie").
I'll keep you posted.
Btw. Congret's and thx to reverse engeneer the sensor (think it was a joint achievment, when i see the information in this tread).
It's comforting to know there is a solution voor the failing sensor, that many porsche drivers have. And they don't have to buy a new trans at a crazy price !!)
I know porsche has a dirty policy. I have personally experienced when i had my IMS problem with my first porsche ('95 porsche boxster)
Thx for the help
