Ptech1

We are in Longwood, FL, greater Orlando area. Driver's Choice Motors.

PV997

Great news Ptech1, I've lost track of the count but that's over two dozen PDKs that have been repaired that I know of. IIRC, the distance sensor had an internal short that was pulling down the +5V also used for other sensors which was causing them to fault. Nice work tracking it down, and also nice to read there still are shops out there that understand the diagnostic art.

Regarding the third pressure sensor, it's only in the cars with the true locking differential option (along with an additional solenoid in the same area). This was introduced in the 991/981's so you'll never see it in the 997/987's but may or may not see it in the later models depending on the option package and/or model line.

PV997

Good luck and yes I agree a different PIWIS is worth a try. My suspicion is that this is going to end with replacing the TCU with a new one but that's just a hunch. I think there is something in it that's getting corrupted or improperly configured that is causing a conflict. Unfortunately, none of this software stuff is documented and we really don't know what the PIWIS is doing during these various steps.

BTW, if you run a VAL with the PIWIS there's a huge section on the PDK that includes literally thousands and thousands of values. I think these are adaption tables along with other configuration items. It would be really interesting to see how these change after running a cal, software update, etc. That might help us unravel some off this.

Also, see the new post @abpaz upthread, looks like he's having software issues too.

Fullyield

"
Are you near the old Millenia Motors location up the street from the high school?

Ptech1

That was us, but our previous location. We relocated into our own building about a mile away off of 434.

710 S Milwee St
Longwood FL 32750

JoeOB

Hi
I read with interest your guide to working on Porsche PDK transmissions. I am having a problem with mine. The dealer is not allowed to repair the transmission but he did share a screenshot of the codes that popped up. His mechanic seems to paint a different repair that needs to be done. He is saying a break in the internal wiring harness in the transmission needs to be repaired. The code seems to point to a clutch .One is P1043 and the other is P17B2. The problem is intermittent and when the problem arises it goes into a limp mode. It’s a 2011 911 4S. Any light you can shed would be appreciated. Thanks Joe

PV997

That P1043 isn't in my PDK fault code list and your screen shot seems to indicate it's associated with the DME (engine computer) rather than the PDK. It's probably a DME fault triggered by the PDK fault but that's just speculation.

The P17B2 codes is a family of faults associated with clutch 1 or clutch 2 errors, often pressure related. Just P17B2 by itself is too generic and doesn't provide much useful information. If you have the code read with a PIWIS, Durametric or other specialized scanner you should get a short description of the fault which will tell your what specific type of P17B2 fault occurred. Without that there is not much we can tell.

As to a damaged internal harness it's a possibility but I doubt it. For each fault Porsche has a list of possible causes including things that could in theory be the cause even if they are very unlikely (and harness damage is usually on that list). It's more likely to be a problem with the valve body or the clutch itself IMO.

What were the symptoms of the failure? Was it stuck in one gear or were you able to access only odd or even gears? Without a lot more details it's impossible to nail it down further.

JoeOB

Hi
Initially the engine check lights were showing up and when I ran a basic scanner I came up with P17B2. A couple of days later I was moving the car and it went into the “limp” mode. I had it towed to the dealer who replaced the battery and reset the engine light. They drove it for 40 miles and no problem. A few days later the light returned. Thats when they came up with the report above. Do you know of anyone in the New York area that is good at repairing this type of transmission.

boxsterke

Hi GTSpure,
Thx for your reply, and sorry for my late one.
It can be a combination.....It also occurs when driving in manual mode ...(without gear shifting).
And it really sounds and feels like a slipping clutch.
I went to a PDK specialist in holland (T-design told me about... "porsche-versnellingsbak-revisie") and they have experience with porsche PDK.
They drove the car and they have an idea where to look, but they can not exact put a finger on it. There can be a solenoid going bad, valve in the valvebody that close bad, oil pressure can be the problem ( wear oil-pump), but it could also be the clutch itself.
They can test everything, but they need to remove the pan from the gearbox, to pin point the probleme. (test valve body, test oil-pump and they can test the clutch when the valve body is removed).
So I made an appointment (29/11) to put the car in and have everything tested. (hope they can find it )
I'll be sure to let you know, when i know more .

Fullyield

PV 997 - I was talking to my best friend, Jack Daniels, last night, and he gave me an idea. I would like to submit your original PDK Repair thread for publication in the PCA Porsche Panorama and the PCA Suncoast Region’’s bimonthly magazine called Porsche Profile. When published, I will then write a letter to the editors of both publications criticizing Porsche for not providing more reasonable and cost effective solutions for the failure of distance sensors and the field repair of PDKs. Hopefully, other RL/PCA members will join in on the criticism and the letter writing campaign. Big waste of time…..maybe. Just enough to push Porsche to change their position,……maybe.

But to do that, I need your permission since you have a copyright on what you wrote which I do not want to violate. The submissions will be no work for you. I will do the submissions and write the letters. I will use your real name, pen name, your handle, any name you wish or no name at all for you as the author of the article. Your decision.

But before you agree, please consider the potential downside. Criticism of Porsche may shine a light on what everyone is doing here. Poking the bear with a stick might result in retaliation from one of the richest corporations in the world. Panorama might refuse to publish it which might cause me to rethink my PCA membership. While Porsche can do nothing about the criticism, they can tell their patent attorneys to chase the distance sensor production and the PIWIS clones. I am guessing that any patents on the electronics inside the PDK (largely designed from 1986-1996) have probably expired by now but that is a guess only. I have not researched it. Also, advertising that you are one of the most knowledgeable PDK experts in the US might bury you in questions and requests.

You can reach out to me at fullyield@yahoo.com if you wish to discuss further. Or, feel free to ignore this as another bad idea not worth the hassle. Thank again for supporting our community.

PV997

Hi Fullyfield – Thanks for the kind words and for the idea. One of things I love about this forum is the folks that are always thinking of new ways to approach things and refuse to accept the status quo.

I’m no lawyer but I don’t think I own any copyright on the post as I posted it on a public forum without any expectation of protection. Even if I did I would not enforce it as that’s not the intention. This PDK stuff is a hobby, I have a good day job (for now at least but that’s another matter).

Here’s how I see it; some dirtbag Porsche executive made the decision to pretend the PDK is non-repairable and gaslight everyone for one reason, so VAG could make more money. The dealerships then happily play along with this charade knowing they’ve got people by the short hairs, they’ll make money on replacements, and don’t seem to have any problem with screwing people over. I hate being lied to, even more I hate having my intelligence insulted with obvious lies. My motivation is pretty simple, this kind of stuff pisses me off. In a world filled with lies meant to manipulate our behavior or steal our money, this is one little area where maybe I can make a difference. Plus I do love the PDK and think it’s an amazing transmission.

If anyone wants to run with this and have it posted elsewhere you have my full permission (not that it’s required IMO but I don’t object in any way). I do ask that people link back to this post so folks can see the latest updates and we can use the comment section as central repository of knowledge.

I don’t ever use my real name because it’s not important. I’m happy to provide my opinion or offer some informed speculation, but that’s all it is. It’s educated guesswork as we are figuring out this stuff together as evidenced by the still unsolved HYTI issue that a couple of people are fighting. I stopped taking PM’s because I want all the info to be public so others can build on it. Plus I got tired of getting PM’s along the lines of, “I know nothing about cars, didn’t read your full post, am too lazy to learn about it or think for myself, but tell me how to fix it so I don’t have to spend a lot of money”. Sorry, that’s not how this works.

I’ll shoot you an email over the weekend Fullyfield and let’s talk offline about the best way to approach this. I like the idea of bringing more attention to this issue in an attempt to force Porsche into more transparency. If their response is cease and desist letters then our response should be to spread the info farther and wider. You can’t put toothpaste back in the tube.

Anyways sorry for the long rant, one of the unforeseen benefits of having a popular post is that I get to pontificate on stuff that annoys me.

RABjr

Very well said and I agree with your assessment of the scenario. The fact that Porsche refuses to fix the PDK seems to me to violate some consumer protection laws. Imagine where this could lead...what's next..full engine replacements...

This post is a game changer for PDK owners - invaluable service you have provided good sir!

t-design

And it will surely be shut down with no trace if you poke the wrong people. Internetbrands the owner of rennlist will do anything that Porsche says.

PV997

No argument but Rennlist is an means to an ends, nothing more. Contributor's postings bring eyeballs to the site which makes IB money, we are their product not the other way around. There is no loyalty due in either direction.

Not to mention the almost schizophrenic nature of the commenters here. On one side you have guys experimenting on their own cars to figure things out and advance the knowledge base, on the other side you have people justifying $500 dealership oil changes and $5000 aftermarket warranties for "peace of mind". It's the former group who have figured out all this stuff and I don't think they are too afraid of poking the wrong people. They enjoy it actually.

Kbken62

Not to mention, IB charges a annual fee of you want to post classified ads. So, without this forum, they will kill the golden goose.

I for one will wrench on my car and drive the hell out of it. Resell value be damned. There are many that understand, leave it stock and pristine and you will get top resell value. And the few that mod and drive um…. We understand it will be worth less, but it will be a well maintained car! Enjoy them!!