Today's Craigslist Finds...
#3286
A friend of mine ran the Carfax on it and mentioned that it had an accident history. There's no way a clean 47kmi C4S is $20k, it's hard to find 47kmi 996.1s for that price.
#3287
Rennlist Member
IMS and RMS again.......
Sir, no disrespect intended, and I don't want to derail the thread with IMSB statements, but you are way, way, way wrong on your idea that this is a 'small minority' type of problem. Edward Deming, and following that, Bill Smith developed and created a quality strategy to improve various mechanisms, and methods for achieving extremely low failure rates. "Six sigma" is a trademarked philosophy, and Deming worked toward a 'zero defect' methodology for the Japanese back when they had a very bad rep for quality products. In short - it works. Porsche, strangely enough tossed out much of their quality goals when they were struggling financially at the inception of the Boxster(and later 996).
A 5% failure rate, is just over the 3rd sigma(area under the normal dist curve) and in modern production environment would be considered a disaster. It would, and should have been a recall event, with Porsche removing every engine from production and putting a halt to deliveries until the problem was understood, quantified, engineered, tested, re-quantified and then released to the gen public. This could(and should) have been done in later 99 or mid-2000 when the number of failures in Boxsters began to be noticeable.
The solutions we have today could have been implemented, and a solution developed fairly early in the production cycle. That was the right thing to do, and Porsche failed miserably, resulting in the issues we are now living with some 20 years later(in terms of the M96 engine in total). It's a huuuuuuuge black eye for a statistical analyst at Porsche, who knew but was likely overruled by a 'crat with a econ degree.
Finally(I hope), there is NO engineering, or econ excuse for a 5% or even a 1% failure rate in any modern engine component. If that happened to Toyota or Mitzu, whomever was responsible would be run out of town on a rail, and fishing in the sea of Japan for squid for the rest - of - his - life.
/rant
A 5% failure rate, is just over the 3rd sigma(area under the normal dist curve) and in modern production environment would be considered a disaster. It would, and should have been a recall event, with Porsche removing every engine from production and putting a halt to deliveries until the problem was understood, quantified, engineered, tested, re-quantified and then released to the gen public. This could(and should) have been done in later 99 or mid-2000 when the number of failures in Boxsters began to be noticeable.
The solutions we have today could have been implemented, and a solution developed fairly early in the production cycle. That was the right thing to do, and Porsche failed miserably, resulting in the issues we are now living with some 20 years later(in terms of the M96 engine in total). It's a huuuuuuuge black eye for a statistical analyst at Porsche, who knew but was likely overruled by a 'crat with a econ degree.
Finally(I hope), there is NO engineering, or econ excuse for a 5% or even a 1% failure rate in any modern engine component. If that happened to Toyota or Mitzu, whomever was responsible would be run out of town on a rail, and fishing in the sea of Japan for squid for the rest - of - his - life.
/rant
I owned two of the Porsches with potential problems, a '97 986 and an '02 996.
But, that said, I was not posting about the company's response to the issues, but rather to the buyers' responses. Prospective buyers have 95% odds in their favor of not having a problem. And, if the buyer wants insurance, the fixes can be applied proactively. All-in-all, 996s and early 997s are priced low for what they offer.
But, I am a believer that you should buy the newest, nicest Porsche you can afford that meets your needs and desires; wait if you have to. Personally, for this latest Porsche, I wanted a 997.2 C4S. So, I waited and searched and looked and shopped and frequented message boards until I found one that met my current needs, desires, and budget.
#3288
Rennlist Member
Honestly 1 in 20 isn't great odds when failure can make you lose 50% of the value of the automobile or more. My Corvette ZR-1 has a much rarer engine harder to source parts for, older, etc (LT5). And it's significantly cheaper to build it up to 450+ hp level than it is to get an M96 rebuilt at all? That's seems a bit insane to me. I'm willing to swallow this bitter pill since for me this is another hobby car. People using them as DDs is baffling to me.
I'm flying to Denver today to most likely acquire my 996. It's from the PCA ad. I will post photos later. We should enjoy the drive back but the weather doesn't look all that fabulous for it.
I'm flying to Denver today to most likely acquire my 996. It's from the PCA ad. I will post photos later. We should enjoy the drive back but the weather doesn't look all that fabulous for it.
#3289
Rennlist Member
Honestly 1 in 20 isn't great odds when failure can make you lose 50% of the value of the automobile or more. My Corvette ZR-1 has a much rarer engine harder to source parts for, older, etc (LT5). And it's significantly cheaper to build it up to 450+ hp level than it is to get an M96 rebuilt at all? That's seems a bit insane to me. I'm willing to swallow this bitter pill since for me this is another hobby car. People using them as DDs is baffling to me.
I'm flying to Denver today to most likely acquire my 996. It's from the PCA ad. I will post photos later. We should enjoy the drive back but the weather doesn't look all that fabulous for it.
I'm flying to Denver today to most likely acquire my 996. It's from the PCA ad. I will post photos later. We should enjoy the drive back but the weather doesn't look all that fabulous for it.
#3290
Rennlist Member
#3291
Rennlist Member
#3293
Also, happy to do a rennfax
#3295
Rennlist Member
#3296
Rennlist Member
99 Cab with 71K miles, $16.5K....looks a little rough, not far from me:
https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/cto/6109922188.html
https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/cto/6109922188.html
#3298
Rennlist Member
#3299
Rennlist Member
99 Cab with 71K miles, $16.5K....looks a little rough, not far from me:
https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/cto/6109922188.html
https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/cto/6109922188.html
GLWS.