RF5BPilot

As with religion, it seems like the fewer the facts we have, the greater the arguments.

Seems like Raby is offering a product, which replaces the factory design. The best guesses are, Jake's product will hold up over time. But only time will tell.

My personal opinion (which is of limited value) is that I don't care for sealed bearings--especially for something that would see a lot of revolutions over time. So, I'm inclined to use Raby's product when my CPO runs out--as a matter of principle if nothing else.

On the human factors side....it's not surprising that if you are confident that it won't happen to you, the expense of the bearing update seems foolish. (I have seen car owners spend more money than this on ornamentation I would not want on my car.)

If you think the frequency of failure is "high" (however you may define that) or in general, if you expect that if a bird craps, it's your car it will hit....you're a lot more motivated to buy what Jake is selling.

It will be interesting over time to see how the evidence (however much or little of it we have) pans out.

Shark Attack

Im not arguing, Im talking. I like your facts. But this is a special interest car. My car was 70K new. I just piad 17.... and thats not unusual right now on a 99-01. Quick in my head math, thats like 75%. On a Porsche. I think you need to get your numbers in the past 911.. Such as 993 and below. This doesnt hold water when I couldnt touch an = 993 for under 21K

mtl911sc

That pretty much sums it up IMO.

I sometimes think of the extra amount of car I could have afforded by waiting a couple of years, but now my circumstances are different and so I wouldn't be inclined to spend the $$ on a car, so where's the win?

Besides, why does everything have to be about money & "value" anyway?? Part of life is about joy & experience, and not "how much can I save".

Of course, others may financially enjoy their retirement more than I likely will, but health is the great equalizer at that point - that's all I can hope for.

15psi

I understand- I was giving a trend model for the 996. The 993 is a unique situation, with the "last air-cooled 911" mystique. The owners I know are afraid to drive their car because it will increase the mileage and lessen the value. They become garage queens. Give me a 996 I drive daily and not worry about value.

I see 996's like the 951 - great value and underpriced - perfect reason to buy and drive for many years. Mine is similar to yours and bought it at $17k. I bought a 356 a few years ago for $4.5k, sold it for $16.5k and kick myself for ever getting rid of it.

I'm just saying I think the IMS affects values less than other variables. I've owned many cars and quit worring about value.

Shark Attack

I am right there with you on buy then to drive them. Right now the 996 is, IMO the best bargain going on the line-up. This is why I bought one with the intent to do the retro fit.

But, I think this IMS is impacting the value hard. You said the 993 is a unique situation. I dont know if I agree there. Look at any past 911, for its age, even if its medium-nice still pulls will over 10K. If they are nice a 15-16 YO 911 will still pull inthe 20's. Its hard to buy >any< 911 for under 13-14 no matter the age. Our cars are already in that price range and they are at most 11 YO.

mtl911sc

And as it's been said time after time on these boards: these cars are made to be driven & enjoyed, which is what makes them such excellent daily drivers. And that goes for the older models as well as the 996.

It's not like it's a 356, '73 RSR, or a 959. The 996 was built in pretty high volumes and is not destined for collector status no matter what people may delude themselves into thinking about it's potential future value. If an owner wants to garage the car so they can extend its life and admire its beauty for as long as possible, that's good. But doing so in an effort to preserve or increase it's value is misguided.

I'd love to be proven wrong in time, but I personally just don't see the avg 996 increasing much beyond today's values. So why sweat it?

Shark Attack

This tread has gone in many differnt directions, I think you missed a post, we started talking about price when someone mentioned the current owners could sell the car if they wanted to. That went into the fact that many owners >may< simply be to up-side-down in leasing or financing to actually get out if they want out. We are not sweating its value. It was more a matter of has the IMS issues effected value?

chsu74

+1.

I paid $34.5K for my car 3 years ago and have dumped around $15K worth of Mods and maintainance costs into it.

24K miles later. Am I upside down on it financially? No, but it is costing me about a $1.19 per mile for my miles of smiles. That being said, I would never trade it for anything else and imagine its no different than say owning a M3.

Barn996

3 years and 4 mos. ago I bought MY 99 with 35k miles on it and have enjoyed owning the car from the start, and paid $33k . My mods have been few other than new tires. I have no regrets at all and would(will) do it again when I get the itch for a newer Porsche.

chsu74

I agree. Its the mods that empties your wallet with these cars.

Shark Attack

I just got my quote to have the retro kit done to the car. THIS INCLUDES A CLUTCH

2300.00. Worth every cent.

Plan on giving him the car in a week or two.

What did I see on another board "Let the mods begin"

ivangene

you just shush up with that kind of trash talking!!

mtl911sc

For sure the IMS issue has affected values, I've seen multiple references to it in a couple of UK Porsche enthusiast mags' 996 buyer's guides - as well as others - which may put potential buyers off.

However, the same could be said that:

SAI & valve guide issues may have affected the 993's values, even though being the last air-cooled model outweighs that;
Broken head stud issues may have affected the 911/911SC's values;
Engine reliability (& rust) issues have definitely affected the 1974-77 911's values;

In short, it's just more of the same. Just on a more serious scale.

yasuro

anyone think that the 997.1/.2 and possibly the 996 might not depreciate as quickly since they might be the last non-VW porsches?

mtl911sc

I think it's entirely possible, but only for the 997.2

I also think that Porsche sharing vehicle platforms w/ VW will be fine, but unfortunately it may work the other way too - not a fan.

Shark Attack was right...we've gone off on so many tangents here! But it's all good conversation.