996 Horsepower (No Mezgers Allowed)
09-16-2022, 05:52 PM
#166
Burning Brakes
Again - take your crank HP estimates somewhere else.
It’s pretty simple, someone of your analytical prowess should easily understand why it doesn’t fit here.
The thread is about actual results people are seeing… ACTUAL RESULTS.
Jeesh, this place sucks sometimes, it’s totally fine for vendors and their sycophants to trash a thread… cause they don’t like that the data reflects you can come damn close to recreating their output with common bolt ons for a very small percentage of the cost. I get it, must be tough after spending so much time tying to keep that info in the dark.
So…. OBFUSCATE….. throw a lot of words, estimates, etc…. All to justify the value of something which cannot be justified as a value conventionally, using simple chassis dyno graphs that are easily understood.
Your engine stand graphs, they’re great for development - they mean nothing to me where I live, in the real world, on a road.
It’s pretty simple, someone of your analytical prowess should easily understand why it doesn’t fit here.
The thread is about actual results people are seeing… ACTUAL RESULTS.
Jeesh, this place sucks sometimes, it’s totally fine for vendors and their sycophants to trash a thread… cause they don’t like that the data reflects you can come damn close to recreating their output with common bolt ons for a very small percentage of the cost. I get it, must be tough after spending so much time tying to keep that info in the dark.
So…. OBFUSCATE….. throw a lot of words, estimates, etc…. All to justify the value of something which cannot be justified as a value conventionally, using simple chassis dyno graphs that are easily understood.
Your engine stand graphs, they’re great for development - they mean nothing to me where I live, in the real world, on a road.
09-16-2022, 05:54 PM
#167
Race Car
Thread Starter
@BaysideFab 485WHP * It Exploded https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263
zbomb FB buddy 470WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352678
Youtube 426WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18353264
@gtxracer 393WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18341989
@Peedster 349WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18345960
@lowpue 345WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323744
@2005 996 C4S 335WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348885
@Jengah 327WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...
@golock911 318WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18357400
@JSETarga 310WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18321626
@mehoff 309 WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...
@NYoutftr 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18326177
@Triple Black 291WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18344577
@911STYL 284WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18348687
@BaysideFab 259WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18323263
@eric523 249WHP https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post18352576
09-16-2022, 06:43 PM
#168
Maybe you missed the logic whilst having a titty baby fit. If you know a typical 996 delivers 250 to 280 RWHP on a dynojet, You subtract that number from 300 or 320 and you get some 40 to 50 HP. That means you can add 40 to 50 HP to a similar car's RWHP to arrive at crank HP. This is because the losses are similar. It's a pretty good "estimate". BTW, you should be very impressed with the two FSI, Dynojet measurements
OP asked for dyno sheets. If you don't have one, it's okay to not post
-from a guy that actually posted a dyno sheet
09-16-2022, 07:50 PM
#169
Burning Brakes
Actually, no, this is not true. Dynos show real HP at the wheels which is more important than crank HP. Crank HP is for people looking to boast higher numbers. Parasitic losses are calculated as percentages, not in set HP numbers. A car making 800 chp will have a different parasitic loss than a car making 500 chp. Again, crank hp is not helpful to someone looking for recipes and outputs at the wheel.
OP asked for dyno sheets. If you don't have one, it's okay to not post
-from a guy that actually posted a dyno sheet
OP asked for dyno sheets. If you don't have one, it's okay to not post
-from a guy that actually posted a dyno sheet
Last edited by dougn; 09-16-2022 at 07:51 PM.
09-16-2022, 07:59 PM
#170
Rennlist Member
Touche
09-16-2022, 08:03 PM
#171
Race Car
Thread Starter
I think that engine output, including peak power IS important.
If we're going to talk about power bands, flat torque curves and BIG peak numbers, dyno graphs should form the basis of those conversations. Why wouldn't they ? What else should ?
So, let's see those higher than stock HP 996's. Share the mods you've done or not. Share how much you spent to get there, or not. There's a lot to be learned by the sharing and discussion of dyno graphs - I hope some people have seen that first hand on other forums and will help encourage, and participate in bringing some of that community knowledge gathering here.
RULES (we're not savages)
1. No Mezgers, any and all other engines allowed and encouraged, any displacement, power adder or combination of power adders also good to go.
2. Must post a chassis dyno graph, if the dyno MFG isn't overlaid on the graph, please add to your post.
3. If you're a MFG, No Development Mules, must be an engine, or parts combo that you sell or is otherwise commercially available. AND, cost of parts, or engine should be included in your post or readily available through your, or others web store.
If we're going to talk about power bands, flat torque curves and BIG peak numbers, dyno graphs should form the basis of those conversations. Why wouldn't they ? What else should ?
So, let's see those higher than stock HP 996's. Share the mods you've done or not. Share how much you spent to get there, or not. There's a lot to be learned by the sharing and discussion of dyno graphs - I hope some people have seen that first hand on other forums and will help encourage, and participate in bringing some of that community knowledge gathering here.
RULES (we're not savages)
1. No Mezgers, any and all other engines allowed and encouraged, any displacement, power adder or combination of power adders also good to go.
2. Must post a chassis dyno graph, if the dyno MFG isn't overlaid on the graph, please add to your post.
3. If you're a MFG, No Development Mules, must be an engine, or parts combo that you sell or is otherwise commercially available. AND, cost of parts, or engine should be included in your post or readily available through your, or others web store.
The following users liked this post:
gtxracer (09-16-2022)
09-16-2022, 08:45 PM
#172
Burning Brakes
09-16-2022, 11:31 PM
#173
Race Car
Thread Starter
3K RPM
FSI 4.0 TQ 255 HP 150
LS7 TQ 380 HP 220
FSI 4.0 down 125 FT/LBS and 70 WHP
3.5K RPM
FSI 4.0 TQ 290 HP 200
LS7 TQ 390 HP 270
FSI 4.0 down 100 FT/LBS and 70 WHP
4K RPM
FSI 4.0 TQ 310 HP 240
LS7 TQ 410 HP 310
FSI 4.0 down 100 FT/LBS and 70 WHP
4.5K RPM
FSI 4.0 TQ 310 HP 260
LS7 TQ 420 HP 360
FSI 4.0 down 110 FT/LBS and 100 WHP
5K RPM
FSI 4.0 TQ 315 HP 300
LS7 TQ 425 HP 410
FSI down 110 FT/LBS and 110 WHP
5.5K RPM
FSI 4.0 TQ 300 HP 310
LS7 TQ 420 HP 440
FSI 4.0 down 120 FT/LBS 130 WHP
6K RPM
FSI 4.0 TQ 290 HP 330
LS7 TQ 400 HP 460
FSI 4.0 down 110 FT/LBS and 130 WHP
6.5K RPM
FSI 4.0 TQ 275 HP 335
LS7 TQ 380 HP 470
FSI 4.0 down 105 FT/LBS and 135 WHP
09-16-2022, 11:38 PM
#174
Rennlist Member
Jason I get the power difference but your comparison is not apples to apple isn’t the Chevy a 7 liter compared to to FSI 4 Liter
it’s obvious that power hp/tq will be a lot less maybe a 5 liter might be closer ?
it’s obvious that power hp/tq will be a lot less maybe a 5 liter might be closer ?
09-16-2022, 11:44 PM
#175
Race Car
Thread Starter
For all the people who are saying that the low end response is their jam - maybe this comparison is helpful.
For all the people saying big HP is their jam - maybe this comparison is helpful... haha.
Last edited by zbomb; 09-16-2022 at 11:45 PM.
09-17-2022, 09:27 AM
#176
Think of it more as a money to performance comparison. What does the cheapest FSI engine cost? 20K and a year wait (and requires your engine as a core)? Alternatively, if you sell a decent running M96 for, say, 6K, you can do an LS swap for less than 10K all in. Another 5K and you can have a bulletproof track set up with an easy, under stressed 400whp. This equation obviously only works for people who can do the project themselves and know something about wrenching.
The following 2 users liked this post by kondata17:
brontosaurus (09-19-2022),
zbomb (09-17-2022)
09-17-2022, 12:25 PM
#177
Rennlist Member
Yes I get the price/performance balance and it really is a great cost/power alternative to an rebuilt m96
my response was the correlation between a 5liter Chevy to an 4.0 FSI (or any rebuilders engine) those numbers I would to see the efficiency difference
and if anyone is going GM motor the biggest you can get the better I guess
my response was the correlation between a 5liter Chevy to an 4.0 FSI (or any rebuilders engine) those numbers I would to see the efficiency difference
and if anyone is going GM motor the biggest you can get the better I guess
The following users liked this post:
Porschetech3 (09-19-2022)
09-19-2022, 09:33 AM
#178
Intermediate
The only thing is I would never want an LS in a Porsche. FSI has the oiling issues solved with their builds so oiling will not be an issue. If someone is really concerned about it you could get the oil scavenge pumps for the heads along with their baffled deep sump sold at LN for additional security and most certainly be good. There is no comparison in sound and feel of a flat 6 compared to an LS in my opinion. I love the sound and feel of the FSI flat 6 and would never remove a motor like that for a LS v8. The sound of it echoing off the trees gets me every time. Lifetime support and being part of the FSI community is invaluable to me as well. For the people that like the LS and want to go that route, that is cool if that is what your thing is. Sounds like a more affordable and more powerful option if that is your goal.
The following 2 users liked this post by 2005 996 C4S:
EVOMMM (09-19-2022),
wildbilly32 (09-19-2022)
09-19-2022, 09:40 AM
#179
Nordschleife Master
[QUOTE=2005 996 C4S;18367511]. If someone is really concerned about it you could get the oil scavenge pumps for the heads along with their baffled deep sump sold at LN for additional security and most certainly be good. ]
The problem is that all of the marketing that has been thrown at us to convince us that this is true has been proven false with data collection.
Back on topic..... hopefully ill get my dyno time in the next 30 days to see what a 85k mile gt3ish motor puts down in a c2.
The problem is that all of the marketing that has been thrown at us to convince us that this is true has been proven false with data collection.
Back on topic..... hopefully ill get my dyno time in the next 30 days to see what a 85k mile gt3ish motor puts down in a c2.
09-19-2022, 05:14 PM
#180
Rennlist Member
While I agree with @zbomb that the thread is suffering from a bit of drift with the FSI talk, I believe we do have 2 graphs of FSI engines. The LN responses tended to be in response to comments about FSI engines as well, so it is not 100% out of line. Finally some good points are being made about just how many factors affect WHP dyno figures. A race oriented alignment steals dyno HP?!? Wow. I'm learning stuff here.