85eurocarrera

Lol.

why not just call Porsche? This is an off topic thread, basically for trying to keep one porcupine from stepping all over others threads….

ZuffenZeus

LOL... In that case... This thread should be called the Official Food Thread with Luis Almighty. Thought anything goes here?

Look it's simple. Just asked a kind question that didn't need it's own thread. Something simple turned into a debate. All Fishah had to say is... "Hey man, I don't know what the dealers are asking these days with the horrible inflation, parts shortage, and all, but my independent will do a complete brake job for $500/wheel" or something like that. But no, he had to put on the ***** hat.

Here's the deal... The only time I go to the dealer is to get new keys. They lost me when they wanted $175.00 to change out a tag light. I kid you not. Last time I asked for a price on a brake job from them, it was north of $3000. Therefore, I do all my brakes, fluids, and minor repairs. Beyond that, I'm asking the man himself for help.

ZuffenZeus

Dealt with both Porsche dealerships in Atlanta many times and they have trained staff specifically for the M9X based Porsches - i.e. 986, 996, 997, and 987.1.

While it may seem like the 996 is a 20 year old "classic" car, the engine platform was used up to 2008. Routine maintenance hasn't changed much either.

Fishah

Never been in an off topic thread with so many rules before 😂

pulpo

That is about what I figured. $500 worth of work, + 100% dealership tax. There are a couple reasons I decided to pay instead of walk away but I won't get into them all.

I am in South Orange County, California. I looked at PCA and they had a couple but when I looked at the Yelp reviews I became concerned. But that's life I guess.

peterp

For what it's worth. I use Porsche dealers while the car is under warranty -- and I will use them after if I still feel their techs still know the car (which they do for current models).

For something that's 20 years old, I would definitely not use the dealer and I think on average they don't know those older cars almost at all. That was my direct experience about 20 years ago with my old 1987 3.2 Carrera -- I needed air conditioning fixed and I thought: why not use the dealer for a generic task? I found out why not, they screwed it up big time and that was a very basic task and a very simple car. They tried to fix it themselves and then ended up having to send it to an independent shop to correct their work. It still wasn't anywhere near perfect when I got if back, but I would not in a million years put it back in their hands.

A 996, now that they are 20-ish years old, is probably one of the most complicated 911's to understand because of the unique idiosyncrasies and nuances of the 996 with things like bore scoring, which oil is best, which aftermarket solutions to use (e.g. IMS). I don't think they knew or cared about that stuff even back in the day because they just replaced whatever was broken without caring about the nuances of why it failed or how to prevent it (not a criticism, that's just their role when the car was new). Today, I think the chances of a tech even knowing the 996 are pretty low -- and properly servicing them now when they have 20 years of use is a lot more nuanced. A quality specialized independent that deals with these older models day-in and day out is going to know these cars better than the dealer. It's very rare to see a 996 in the garage (being worked on) at the dealers I've used.

For brakes, I can't say for the 996, but I just had a quote from a dealer for a Base model Macan -- rear brakes only - $1715 -- for the Base model. The rotors and disks for the front are a lot more expensive, so they probably would have quoted close to $4k for the front and rear. By their own measurements, my rear rotors did not need to be replaced, but they refuse to do pads only (I would have been fine doing rotors and pads if their quote wasn't beyond ridiculous). Their quote for parts was insane -- way above Porsche MSRP -- and they quoted 4 hours of labor ($900) for just the rear brakes (which is a very fast and simple task). I declined to have them do the brakes. I'm not even going to say what add-ins they tossed in as "recommended services" on a car with 27k miles in for its 30k service (which is supposed to be "oil change only" according to the schedule). I did consent to having the spark plugs changed also ($695 for a 4-cylinder 2.0t), which isn't due till 40k, but it didn't bother me to have that done one year earlier.


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zbomb

ZuffenZeus

This your family? 🤣😂

Dr_Strangelove

Don't the Porsche Dealers use Mobil 0w40? Mobil 0w40 add value? What in the sam-heckin-rennlist-996-forum is going on here in this off topic dystopia?

ZuffenZeus

No refined unicorn tears.

pulpo

I agree but we're talking about routine stuff here. The car runs great it's got no problems and got a new bearing and clutch last summer. IDK if extensive 996 knowledge affects their ability to change spark plugs, fluids and filters. They offered all before inspection. I'm guessing they could perform it all and charge me the $6 grand and be none the wiser if bore scoring or ims problems exist. I don't think they are interested in determining whether the car has issues. They were very busy. They called me to tell me the pads and rotors were okay and they didn't find any additional issues, so I don't think they're scammers. I also think that invoices from a Porsche dealership do put a certain buyer at ease when reselling, however it is not even close to worth the premium they charge. For me the reason I will not go back for routine maintenance is simply the cost.

ZuffenZeus

Exactly! Both of my 996 cars were sold by auction, before listing them, I examined analytics on cars in a 5 year period that sold above average and all them provided complete Porsche dealerships maintenance records, even the stamp book. Of course there are other factors (e.g. miles), but that one stood out.

When I sold my last two 996 cars, this is what they wanted to know the most...
1. Has the IMS been replaced?
2. Were there any accidents?
3. Provide a CarFax to show the service history and to back up #2. Porsche service invoices?
4. ECU evaluation to show overrevs, O2 readiness, etc.
5. Would you consider a PPI? and BTW, they insisted on a Porsche dealership instead of an unknown independent shop.

peterp

I definitely place a value on having dealer service when the car was new and when it was still a relatively current model. When it's an older model, I'd probably be neutral about the market value of dealer service because I'm certain the average dealer tech knows less than an independent who specializes in 996s (there may be exceptions, but on average, probably very few of the dealer techs in the garage today went through 996 training 20+ years ago).

As far as choosing to get service today, I'd definitely pick a specialized 996 independent (or do it myself) over having a dealer do the work, because I feel the dealer has less knowledge and is a lot more expensive. Admittedly for brakes, it's almost impossible to screw that up and I'll probably use OEM discs and pads, so the dealer would still be fine -- but I just got raked over the coals for Macan brakes by the dealer, so there's that . Also, the AC service on my 3.2 Carrera should have been "routine" (almost as simple as brakes), and the dealer screwed it up very badly.

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peterp

For sure, there's no better price negotiation tool for a buyer than a cost quote from a dealer itemizing "what's needed"

I would probably value a PPI from a dealer. Running diagnostics and history is certainly something they can do. I really don't know about their ability to comment accurately on the bores or the status of the IMS (maybe those who have done a dealer PPI can comment), but generally I think a PPI form a dealer would be comforting (though I'd presume it a little less comprehensive in the age-related engine vulnerability areas).

One thing Porsche dealers don't have (in all of the dealers I've dealt with at least) is the ability to see work that was done at other Porsche dealers. Much to my surprise, there doesn't seem to be any way for them to see it except through a third party like CarFax.

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ZuffenZeus

The last time I was at the dealership just before the pandemic shut-downs, there were quite a few 996 models waiting for service. Even had a 996 RUF RTurbo on display. Who knows if that's still the case.


That sounds about what they quoted me for the 996... around $800/wheel... wouldn't be surprised if it's not north of $4K now for 911 models. Gotta factor the P-tax is more for 911. ha!