User 63031

Don't blame me for your own inability to understand these engines. All critical / wear areas in the engine are supplied by clean, filtered oil. The IMSB is not part of that oil-feed, but literally sits in unfiltered sump-oil all day. And open IMSB relies on unfiltered sump oil for lubrication, period. If you don't understand that difference, and why you shouldn't have an open IMSB with leftover hard-debris in your sump oil, then sorry but I can't help you.

AnthonyGS

Okay now explain the 1st argument, in this case just replace the IMSB since it’s not an issue.

You need to help your buddy trolls out. I don’t need or desire your help.

Furthermore, these bearings are only sealed in name. In reality hot oil enters them and washes out the grease then debris formation can start from within the bearing or fine debris can enter with the oil. If you had actually researched this topic, you’d know this. But you’d rather just tell us what you know even if you don’t know. Find me someone that’s serviced an IMS bearing that was still filled with grease after any appreciable mileage.

Troll hard bro!

808Bill

There's a reason all the experts recommend removing the seal on non-serviceable bearings.

User 63031

You're free to keep your eyes shut. You're free to believe whatever you want, I've said what I needed to say. I'll say it one more time

If you don't believe a word I said, just go ask LN Engineering what oil lubricates their IMS Retrofit (sump oil or filtered oil), and if their Retrofit bearings are capable of withstanding any amount of debris-laden oil. Ask them if there is any situation where their Retrofit can be installed following an IMSB failure that doesn't include complete rebuild and cleaning of ~10-20k $. There's a reason they are super adamant about this and always will be. They will say "no" and "no", the engine and sump oil must be pristine and clean or the Retrofit will simply fail. If they say otherwise, come rub it in my face. Or don't, if you're scared to hear their answer.

There's always the ignore feature, I suggest you use it if you want to remain in your most expensive bubble.

AnthonyGS

We don’t disagree here at all. My point is the idea behind no metal made it past the filter so clean sump install new bearing = win that you trolls are recommending to the OP.

You are contradicting yourselves not me.

Blame me for your contradictory thoughts though. It’s the new en vogue thing to do.

The bearing is a problem and can become a catastrophic issue. I don’t care how you address it. I just think the OP needs to know the risks involved with all the recommendations. It’s real easy to play what if with someone’s else’s money and engine.

A full rebuild will cost 10-20k no matter who does it. If you start looking at the sum total of what’s involved the pricing is about equal across most of the options, quality and the companies backing them are not. Save a penny here or there may or may not pay off in the long run. You can reuse your stock heads as is for example. Or you can go with someone that has them all sent off, inspected, rebuilt and even modified. If you go with a cheap option and do all of that yourself, you will arrive at the big dollar build number pretty quick.

Your car do as you wish, but the lies about all of this being a hoax, scam, and understating the issues does a huge dis-service to the OP and anyone else that comes across these posts. There is too much exaggeration on both sides of this coin and it really ruins the enjoyment of these cars. It is an issue and it can be addressed.

Here we have a real person with a real car that succumbed to this overblown, hoax, scam.... now what?

I hope the OP has success and it’s a long lived and economical as feasible. I wish I had all the answers to give the OP, but I do not. I’m also very certain your advise is quite likely worth less than that.

I asked the most interesting man in the world about you. He said, STAY TROLLISH, FRIEND.

User 63031

Point me to the contradiction. Did I or did I not say that if you go the replacement route, you always need a sealed bearing?

You can jump high and low, but a sealed bearing - while not sealed forever - will be sealed absolutely shut for an appreciable amount of time. Even if that's only 10k km (which it's not, as you know it's closer to 40k km), your bearing will be sealed for more than enough time for all the debris left in the places you couldn't reach to have been flushed out and end up in the bottom of the pan or oil filter (which really shouldn't take more than a few hundred km and a few oil changes), after which you drop the pan one more time just to be sure.

If you stick an open bearing in immediately after salvaging a motor with sump-debris, you run the risk of lodged debris entering the bearing in the early 10's of kilometers, which will for sure destroy that bearing.

You're just hell-bent on calling my comments 'trolls' since you don't want to take the time actually reading them. I could say that's trolling, too.

AnthonyGS

1). I’m addressing all of you replace the bearing trolls in unison. One of you stated none of the metal made it out of the sump. Guaranteed? I can’t keep track of all of you. It’s an epidemic these days.

2). You are stating put in a sealed bearing then say it’ll last 10 k km or more and that you know it, and I know it too. I don’t. Care to guarantee your solution to the OP? If it doesn’t work will you pay for the rebuild?

You’re guessing at best.

I’m not hell bent. I’m flat out calling you a troll. I’m also flat out saying your advice is a nuisance and just a tiny bit above worthless.

Want to prove me wrong? Do it, drive it, and pay for it when it blows up. Heck I will provide a brand new SK “sealed” bearing in the correct part number and loan you a full set of IMS bearing replacement tools, although I’m sure you have everything you need in a rusty old toolbox stored outside.

Do it, or troll on. The most interesting man said STAY TROLLISH, but now you’re no longer his friend.

I don’t need to ignore you. It’s people like the OP that need honest help that should ignore you. That is the entire point.

User 63031

Mate. My money already is where my mouth is. My Porsche has a 70$ off-the-shelf SMT sealed bearing after my sump was literally coated in debris-laden oil, installed by yours truly. This was 1.5 years ago. I'm at 15k km with that solution as we speak. If you had cared to actually READ, you would've known that instead of checkmating yourself.

What experience do you have to contradict and call me a troll anyway?

Prelude Guy

This phenomenon is what I would expect an objective person to want to learn more about. I know I did. I have no allegiance to any car maker. If an engine is poorly designed, it's poorly designed!

Do you accept the fact that the M96s are unique in that owners need to cut open their oil filters to check for metal debris? If not, we don't need to discuss any further. We can agree to disagree at that point. If you accept that true, the next question is why is there so much floating around. If it's not taking out the upper end of the engine, what could be the reason for that? Metal debris is often found in the oil filter housing, as well as in the sump.

If this is such a common occurrence, the next question would be to ask why other parts aren't taken out. Clearly that would mean that the metal debris isn't getting to those areas.

Why is the IMSB directly affected by the debris? As proven many times over, the IMSB is right where all of the metal debris collects!!!

You can site race engines and motorcycle engines all you want. Show me any other engine that has as much metal debris in the oil filter where it calls for ALL OWNERS to check every time they change their oil.

Watch how you speak to people though guy!

He's already proven you wrong, tough guy! He did exactly what he is recommending to other people. Why don't you stop calling people names and maybe try to learn something.

AnthonyGS

You pull your sump pan recently? Inspect your bores? And as I asked and you failed ti answer, are you going to guarantee this solution to the OP? We’ve already heard of people that I’ve done this and gotten lucky. I recently tore down an M96 with an intermix issue. The IMSB was failing possibly due to the oil / water mix, and it could’ve been replaced with a factory bearing too. How long would it last? No telling. That engine became a core though.

I’ve probably been a mechanic as long as you’ve been alive on cars, nuclear submarines, class 8 trucks, have 8 patents related specifically to the transportation industry, blah blah blah.

My beef with you is that you think you know everything and one solution fits every case. The only thing that will teach you different is time. Sadly, I’ve learned some people never acquire the tact or wisdom to realize they don’t know it all ever.... you are well on your way.

I’ve also been on the internet since the Usenet days, I have plenty of experience ID’ing a troll. I guarantee you will reply to this and spread your nonsense in any and all IMSB threads from now until...... ad nauseum. That’s classic trolling. Have fun, but I wouldn’t trust you to air up my tires properly. Luck and being a good mechanic having zero in common. You spend a lot of time here attacking good people, good mechanics, and pretty much anyone trying to be helpful.

I don’t consider myself a good person or good mechanic, so need to troll there.

I will probably never argue with you again though. Arguing with stupid people is not worth the time. They don’t ever realize their own limitations, just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I just hope the OP doesn’t do a poor repair job and then experience something even worse. I personally would tear this entire engine down to the crankshaft, inspect everything, and then make and informed decision.

Have fun with the trolling those with real failures though. It’s pretty macabre if you ask me.

dporto

Where are the "moderators" when you need them - what a useful thread...

911Syncro

Not sure if this is the best thread to add a question. When I was shopping about 2.5 years ago, I could have sworn that the LN ceramic bearing was not specified with a replacement interval, almost as if the bearing is good for the lifetime of the car. But then perhaps some months later, they came out with a recommended 75K miles replacement. Does anybody remember that better than I can? Thanks.

NuttyProfessor

Ditto! I've been off the forums for a while and come back to what appears to be a thread derailed. Ugh.

docmirror

Whoa, here Hoss. I mentioned that it could be done - with plenty of caveats. I'm not big on asplaining common sense stuff like all the steps to clean as much as possible before slapping a new bearing in there. I'm certain I did not mention anything about no metal made it out of the sump. I think I did mention changing to a LN no-bypass filter so none of the REMAINING bits/chunks in the sump would be circulated. That - is really, seriously not the same thing. BTW, my commentary was backed up by a gentleman who did exactly that, and is still happily driving on his saved engine. If you can't keep track, I wish to not be lumped in with the 'all of you's.

DreamCarrera

WTF?

Hey Cupcake, I highly recommend using the ignore feature to prevent further damage to your delicate sensibilities.






As I've said before, I believe the joy most of us 996 owners get from these cars is inversely proportional to the amount of time spent reading the 996 section of RL...