2019 Engine Rebuild Comparison RND/FSI/EBS/Vertex
05-13-2019, 03:47 PM
#121
Rennlist Member
I'm with @cds72911 on this. Lot's of people are making this a binary decision where you have to spend $20k+ for a "bulletproof" motor and everything else is assumed to fail and be wasted money. In fact there are a range of options, and while all of them are expensive, I reject this notion that anything less than an FSI build is wasted money. All of the options for rebuilding and replacing an engine will last for some period of time and number of miles. All of them will will eventually fail, given the right (wrong?) circumstances.
In my case, I have with 70k miles on it. It's cosmetically nice, but it has an accident on it's carfax. I'm not planning to keep it forever, but I think I might keep it for a 5 years, which will be about 10-12k miles of driving for me. I'm considering the shortblock route, which will cost around $12k, and while it might not last forever, I feel pretty confident it will last my ownership of the car and well into the next owner's usage. After all, there are plenty of owners with 50,60,100k+ miles on their original engines.
Lots of people on this forum are looking for validation of their of their personal choices, but the thing is, there is no reasonable argument of having these cars at all. Sports cars are frivolous, and it's an inherently emotional choice to buy and fix one. Not to mention, many of us have lost way more than $20k on newer cars due to depreciation alone. Make choices that work for you. Let others make choices that work for them. And remember "Nobody with a good car needs to be justified."
In my case, I have with 70k miles on it. It's cosmetically nice, but it has an accident on it's carfax. I'm not planning to keep it forever, but I think I might keep it for a 5 years, which will be about 10-12k miles of driving for me. I'm considering the shortblock route, which will cost around $12k, and while it might not last forever, I feel pretty confident it will last my ownership of the car and well into the next owner's usage. After all, there are plenty of owners with 50,60,100k+ miles on their original engines.
Lots of people on this forum are looking for validation of their of their personal choices, but the thing is, there is no reasonable argument of having these cars at all. Sports cars are frivolous, and it's an inherently emotional choice to buy and fix one. Not to mention, many of us have lost way more than $20k on newer cars due to depreciation alone. Make choices that work for you. Let others make choices that work for them. And remember "Nobody with a good car needs to be justified."
05-13-2019, 08:07 PM
#122
I would like to say I meant no offense to the OP or any other poster in this thread. Everyone is in different stages in their own life and as I said above I think it is great that there many choices. Make the choice that suits your situation from sell as a roller, to part out, to used motor, to...whatever you want, need, can afford. Enjoy life...it's to short to quarrel.
05-13-2019, 09:16 PM
#123
I would like to say I meant no offense to the OP or any other poster in this thread. Everyone is in different stages in their own life and as I said above I think it is great that there many choices. Make the choice that suits your situation from sell as a roller, to part out, to used motor, to...whatever you want, need, can afford. Enjoy life...it's to short to quarrel.
I’m not offended by either of your responses, and I’m glad you have cars you can drive and enjoy.
If I seemed a bit short, it’s just because I have lost my patience with the constant drumbeat of people pushing FSI. It’s undoubtedly a great option, and that point-of-view is VERY well represented on this forum. I’ve been trying to shed some light on the other options, because there’s a lot less info available for them and I want to keep space open for sharing other information and experiences in this discussion.
05-14-2019, 08:26 AM
#124
Rennlist Member
"If I seemed a bit short, it’s just because I have lost my patience with the constant drumbeat of people pushing FSI. It’s undoubtedly a great option, and that point-of-view is VERY well represented on this forum. I’ve been trying to shed some light on the other options, because there’s a lot less info available for them and I want to keep space open for sharing other information and experiences in this discussion."
Nobody is "pushing FSI" (or LNE for that matter)... If you haven't figured it out yet, there's a reason that they're the preeminent M96 engine builders in the US. Sometimes it's difficult to see the forest through the trees. We're just trying to save you some time
Nobody is "pushing FSI" (or LNE for that matter)... If you haven't figured it out yet, there's a reason that they're the preeminent M96 engine builders in the US. Sometimes it's difficult to see the forest through the trees. We're just trying to save you some time
05-14-2019, 09:03 AM
#125
I hope my post dont come across as pushing for FSI as I used the 20k in my comment. Just base on your spreadsheet which is amazing and great service to this community, they are all seem to approach that figure when it comes to full rebuilt.
My car has a replaced short block from Porsche by PO after his AOS failed. I have no idea how much he paid for it but it lists head job, rebuild with OEM short block. It has the 997 style IMS (non-serviceable). It has now 14k miles on it and I hope to have many more in its life.
My car has a replaced short block from Porsche by PO after his AOS failed. I have no idea how much he paid for it but it lists head job, rebuild with OEM short block. It has the 997 style IMS (non-serviceable). It has now 14k miles on it and I hope to have many more in its life.
05-14-2019, 10:14 AM
#127
Rennlist Member
Unless things have changed recently, pricing also varies greatly on the factory shortblocks. Some m-codes are subsidized (highly discounted), where others (m97.01, m97.21, etc) cost significantly more than any of the options listed, once you add in the labor and additional parts required to complete the shortblock to a longblock.
At the end of the day, the factory shortblock option does not resolve cylinder or IMS issues. You get the same flawed components including the non-serviceable IMS bearing.
At the end of the day, the factory shortblock option does not resolve cylinder or IMS issues. You get the same flawed components including the non-serviceable IMS bearing.
05-14-2019, 10:16 AM
#128
I hope my post dont come across as pushing for FSI as I used the 20k in my comment. Just base on your spreadsheet which is amazing and great service to this community, they are all seem to approach that figure when it comes to full rebuilt.
My car has a replaced short block from Porsche by PO after his AOS failed. I have no idea how much he paid for it but it lists head job, rebuild with OEM short block. It has the 997 style IMS (non-serviceable). It has now 14k miles on it and I hope to have many more in its life.
My car has a replaced short block from Porsche by PO after his AOS failed. I have no idea how much he paid for it but it lists head job, rebuild with OEM short block. It has the 997 style IMS (non-serviceable). It has now 14k miles on it and I hope to have many more in its life.
FWIW - the current price on the spreadsheet for rebuilt motors, fully installed, is ~$13k for the factory short block to to $22k for an FSI Street Performer, with a few options in the $15-16k range.
05-14-2019, 10:31 AM
#129
Latest updates to the spreadsheet comparison:
- Added pricing and parts details for the factory short block option
- Added additional parts rows for major new parts included with the short block (e.g. crank)
- Hid the FSI Stocker column, as per Jake's previous comment it seems like that option is no longer available
- Added a second tab to start tracking pricing on buying a used motor. It's incomplete I may delete it instead if I choose to go a different way with my engine.
05-14-2019, 10:42 AM
#130
Former Vendor
We are now booked through July 2020 and not accepting any new work until we get some of this off our plates. I started a wait list, to get on the wait list. When we finish a job, and ship a car, then I call the next guy on the list and see if he is ready to get started.
Just an FYI.
Just an FYI.
05-14-2019, 10:46 AM
#131
Unless things have changed recently, pricing also varies greatly on the factory shortblocks. Some m-codes are subsidized (highly discounted), where others (m97.01, m97.21, etc) cost significantly more than any of the options listed, once you add in the labor and additional parts required to complete the shortblock to a longblock.
That's a drawback for sure, but I wonder what you think is a reasonable number of trouble-free miles to expect from a factory block and larger single-row IMS bearing?
05-14-2019, 11:56 AM
#132
Rennlist Member
Thanks Charles, that's good to know. It looks like the 3.4 short block is generally available for around $7k. And for folks joining this thread late, this comparison is focused on 996 engines, so as Charles points out, M97 engine owners might not find it particularly useful.
That's a drawback for sure, but I wonder what you think is a reasonable number of trouble-free miles to expect from a factory block and larger single-row IMS bearing?
That's a drawback for sure, but I wonder what you think is a reasonable number of trouble-free miles to expect from a factory block and larger single-row IMS bearing?
05-14-2019, 12:24 PM
#133
Rennlist Member
@808Bill Why is the shortblock not an option in Hawaii? I thought options that don't require you to ship your car to the continental US would be ideal.
Side note: I'm headed to Hawaii for the first time in in June. Taking the family to Oahu for a week. Can't wait
Side note: I'm headed to Hawaii for the first time in in June. Taking the family to Oahu for a week. Can't wait
Oahu has been over run...Go to one of the outer islands if you can.
05-14-2019, 05:11 PM
#135
Rennlist Member
