993tt ECU maps - who has what?
11-29-2005, 09:01 AM
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993tt ECU maps - who has what?
Hi everyone,
I've just installed a fresh pair of K16's, techart 100 cells, and techarts sports exhausts, so i'm now *shopping* for ECU work.
I've been quoted a few different options by a few different people:
1. rolling road remap, 450 ish, £2k
2. rolling road remap, 450 ish, £1k
3. rolling road, piggyback ecu, HKS boost controller, 450 ish, £1.5k
4. off-the-shelf GIAC, 450 ish, £1.4k
5. off-the-shelf Techart, 460 ish, £2.5k
Obviously i am taking a lot of this with a pinch of salt, but i was wondering who else has K16's and what option you have gone for (e.g. GIAC).
Kevin, your input would be very gratefully recieved also if you have any ideas.
What i'd really like is a plug'n'play ECU so that i can return the car to stock quickly and easily...
HELP!
I've just installed a fresh pair of K16's, techart 100 cells, and techarts sports exhausts, so i'm now *shopping* for ECU work.
I've been quoted a few different options by a few different people:
1. rolling road remap, 450 ish, £2k
2. rolling road remap, 450 ish, £1k
3. rolling road, piggyback ecu, HKS boost controller, 450 ish, £1.5k
4. off-the-shelf GIAC, 450 ish, £1.4k
5. off-the-shelf Techart, 460 ish, £2.5k
Obviously i am taking a lot of this with a pinch of salt, but i was wondering who else has K16's and what option you have gone for (e.g. GIAC).
Kevin, your input would be very gratefully recieved also if you have any ideas.
What i'd really like is a plug'n'play ECU so that i can return the car to stock quickly and easily...
HELP!
11-29-2005, 10:39 AM
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11-29-2005, 01:56 PM
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The question is why?? If you get a 1bar program for the stock K16's you'll net 430-440HP Max.. Send me your cores and step up to GT1's and my programming to match.
11-29-2005, 02:20 PM
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Regardless if you go with Kevin or a myriad of other available turbo options,
You are VERY LIMITED (read: will be disappointed) if you stay with stock K-16's.
Go with a "package" like Kevin's and you will not be disappointed, and there are
many others as well (FVD, Cargraphic, etc.)
Mk
You are VERY LIMITED (read: will be disappointed) if you stay with stock K-16's.
Go with a "package" like Kevin's and you will not be disappointed, and there are
many others as well (FVD, Cargraphic, etc.)
Mk
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11-29-2005, 05:04 PM
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Stock K16s can scientifically (physically) not produce over 450hp on a 993TT. Sorry to disagree Bob, I don't mean to dispute your words, but the dyno needed calibration if you saw those numbers sustained on a K16.
VS, I am afraid you are not going the right route if you want decent 430-450hp performance. The K16s with any of those programs will not get you more than 10-15hp sustained maybe.
VS, I am afraid you are not going the right route if you want decent 430-450hp performance. The K16s with any of those programs will not get you more than 10-15hp sustained maybe.
11-29-2005, 06:16 PM
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If you are willing to run race gas only then look at the GIAC race gas program. The fuel will allow you to tune for more power than possible with pump gas. This will give you best possible performance with stock K16's. It will be VERY responsive. Should be approx 450-485 HP on 100 oct.
If you are only willing to run pump fuel go with the porsche 450hp program.
A better option is to upgrade your turbos with programming.
If you are only willing to run pump fuel go with the porsche 450hp program.
A better option is to upgrade your turbos with programming.
11-29-2005, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Jean
Stock K16s can scientifically (physically) not produce over 450hp on a 993TT. Sorry to disagree Bob, I don't mean to dispute your words, but the dyno needed calibration if you saw those numbers sustained on a K16.
VS, I am afraid you are not going the right route if you want decent 430-450hp performance. The K16s with any of those programs will not get you more than 10-15hp sustained maybe.
VS, I am afraid you are not going the right route if you want decent 430-450hp performance. The K16s with any of those programs will not get you more than 10-15hp sustained maybe.
11-29-2005, 06:55 PM
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I think in the UK you also have Shell V-Power 100 with 100 oct. ROZ.
What is this in "US oct."?
Sportec claimed a 20hp improvement with V-Power 100 oct. against the standard 98 oct. ROZ on their world-record Cayenne.
What is this in "US oct."?
Sportec claimed a 20hp improvement with V-Power 100 oct. against the standard 98 oct. ROZ on their world-record Cayenne.
11-29-2005, 07:25 PM
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Interesting reading all these opinions.
1. I have seen a 2.0 four pot produce well over 300bhp on a single K16 - so i'm sure they can produce lots of boost.
2. A well respected tuner over here has advised that he has seen 490+ from stock K16's plenty of times, with stock cats and exhausts, but it requires a set of injectors and a 5 bar FPR and a few days on the rolling road.
3. Another well respected tuner has produced 460bhp from a 993tt (from 402) by using a piggyback chip and HKS boost controller and less than a day on the rolling road.
So, with all due respect to all these posts, what i would like to see is evidence. If you have, for example, the GIAC off-the-shelf program (460 i think, using US 91 Oct) and you like it and felt the difference from before and after you installed it, i'd love to hear. Likewise, if you have tried something and weren't impressed, please feel free to express that opinion also (if not here then PM me).
Thanks to all those who have responded so far, i am reading with interest.
Stummel, we don't get V-power. The best we get is either super (97), shell optimax (98), or tesco super (99) which is supplied by greenergy.
Bob, if you'd made that piggyback system i would have bought it in a second. I've been in a stock 450bhp Turbo S and the K24s aren't for me. I'd rather buy a 964 3.6T for that kind of *wait for the big hit* punch. Maybe hybrids would be the way to go, but i'd want to drive a car with them and feel it for myself.
1. I have seen a 2.0 four pot produce well over 300bhp on a single K16 - so i'm sure they can produce lots of boost.
2. A well respected tuner over here has advised that he has seen 490+ from stock K16's plenty of times, with stock cats and exhausts, but it requires a set of injectors and a 5 bar FPR and a few days on the rolling road.
3. Another well respected tuner has produced 460bhp from a 993tt (from 402) by using a piggyback chip and HKS boost controller and less than a day on the rolling road.
So, with all due respect to all these posts, what i would like to see is evidence. If you have, for example, the GIAC off-the-shelf program (460 i think, using US 91 Oct) and you like it and felt the difference from before and after you installed it, i'd love to hear. Likewise, if you have tried something and weren't impressed, please feel free to express that opinion also (if not here then PM me).
Thanks to all those who have responded so far, i am reading with interest.
Stummel, we don't get V-power. The best we get is either super (97), shell optimax (98), or tesco super (99) which is supplied by greenergy.
Bob, if you'd made that piggyback system i would have bought it in a second. I've been in a stock 450bhp Turbo S and the K24s aren't for me. I'd rather buy a 964 3.6T for that kind of *wait for the big hit* punch. Maybe hybrids would be the way to go, but i'd want to drive a car with them and feel it for myself.
11-29-2005, 10:57 PM
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sideways,
Little confused by your last post. You first stated that you want to return to stock easy. Now you said you would be willing to do a piggie back controller. If you are willing to do some more work the I highly recommend the protomotive software and EBC. You can dial the boost in to where ever you want and the EBC makes for very very stable boost curves. You will also be able to adjust the levels based on available fuel.
I have that software and EBC. It is a very nice package!
Little confused by your last post. You first stated that you want to return to stock easy. Now you said you would be willing to do a piggie back controller. If you are willing to do some more work the I highly recommend the protomotive software and EBC. You can dial the boost in to where ever you want and the EBC makes for very very stable boost curves. You will also be able to adjust the levels based on available fuel.
I have that software and EBC. It is a very nice package!
11-30-2005, 04:45 AM
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This board is going back to the old days unfortunately.
Assuming I definitely don't know what I am talking about, Kevin a turbochargers builder neither, RS Tuning are almost getting there to understand turbosystems since they can only get 448PS from their program after modifying the K16, ECu, exhaust, intake, etc.., Sportec are closer to being good tuners since they can get 460PS from modified K16s, ECU, MAF, etc..Porsche engineers are in fact not very competent since they moved to K24s for their 450hp packages and GT2, and they could have stuck to K16s apparently.
Race gas or not, piggy back, 1.1 Bar, or what have you...you will NOT get above 450hp of drivable (meaning real) hp. With strictly an HKS and ECU you will be lucky to get 430hp (real!!), check acceleration numbers.. It is not about fuel, it is about air flow. As I said, it is physics, I have said this before, do the math, you have a TT engine that can flow maximum 9hp per pound of air, you have 25lb compressors, you have 2 turbos, you will get 450hp Max. and you will not sustain them unless you have done a lot of other mods to your engine. race gas or not, boost or not, it does not matter.
Get a 996TT, it flows 10hp per lb of air, and you get your 500hp, simple.
K24, you seem to believe Todd Knighton, why don't you ask him about the above.
VS, the very respected tuners you have in the UK unfortunately cannot change physics, I can show whatever you would like to see on a dyno. the K16 alone is not the limiting factor, nor the maps, it is in conjunction with the engine that you have. The 2.0 four pot (?) is a different engine. On the other hand if this is what you choose to believe, it is your money, just trying to answer your initial question.
Assuming I definitely don't know what I am talking about, Kevin a turbochargers builder neither, RS Tuning are almost getting there to understand turbosystems since they can only get 448PS from their program after modifying the K16, ECu, exhaust, intake, etc.., Sportec are closer to being good tuners since they can get 460PS from modified K16s, ECU, MAF, etc..Porsche engineers are in fact not very competent since they moved to K24s for their 450hp packages and GT2, and they could have stuck to K16s apparently.
Race gas or not, piggy back, 1.1 Bar, or what have you...you will NOT get above 450hp of drivable (meaning real) hp. With strictly an HKS and ECU you will be lucky to get 430hp (real!!), check acceleration numbers.. It is not about fuel, it is about air flow. As I said, it is physics, I have said this before, do the math, you have a TT engine that can flow maximum 9hp per pound of air, you have 25lb compressors, you have 2 turbos, you will get 450hp Max. and you will not sustain them unless you have done a lot of other mods to your engine. race gas or not, boost or not, it does not matter.
Get a 996TT, it flows 10hp per lb of air, and you get your 500hp, simple.
K24, you seem to believe Todd Knighton, why don't you ask him about the above.
VS, the very respected tuners you have in the UK unfortunately cannot change physics, I can show whatever you would like to see on a dyno. the K16 alone is not the limiting factor, nor the maps, it is in conjunction with the engine that you have. The 2.0 four pot (?) is a different engine. On the other hand if this is what you choose to believe, it is your money, just trying to answer your initial question.