993tt ECU maps - who has what?
12-04-2005, 05:46 PM
#76
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Sounds like a good idea.
For what it's worth, some of the other figures on the day:
987s = 269.3 bhp, 987s = 276.8 bhp
986 = 252.2 bhp, 986 = 246.1 bhp, 986 = 261.9 bhp
964 = 236.9 bhp
930t = 313.6 bhp.
944t = 249.6 bhp.
968 = 227.3 bhp.
996C4s = 327.2 bhp
993C4 = 286.8 bhp
928GT = 301.5 bhp
993tt = 522.8 bhp (mjims)
For what it's worth, some of the other figures on the day:
987s = 269.3 bhp, 987s = 276.8 bhp
986 = 252.2 bhp, 986 = 246.1 bhp, 986 = 261.9 bhp
964 = 236.9 bhp
930t = 313.6 bhp.
944t = 249.6 bhp.
968 = 227.3 bhp.
996C4s = 327.2 bhp
993C4 = 286.8 bhp
928GT = 301.5 bhp
993tt = 522.8 bhp (mjims)
12-05-2005, 02:37 PM
#77
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Originally Posted by VerySideways
it managed 420.8bhp and 468lb/ft - i will scan the sheets when i can get my scanner working again 
The concensus was that i should see between 445 and 450bhp and around 490lb/ft when my clutch is done - we plan to dyno the car again next weekend if we can get the clutch finished in time.
Am i pleased? Like you wouldn't believe
.
The concensus was that i should see between 445 and 450bhp and around 490lb/ft when my clutch is done - we plan to dyno the car again next weekend if we can get the clutch finished in time.
Am i pleased? Like you wouldn't believe
.
If you start by accepting that engine dynos (properly calibrated and set up for measuring these type of engines) are the only truely accurate way to measure flywheel torque which is measured against a brake at different rpm then hp is calculated by tq(lb/ft)*engine revs/5252.
The program you have is effectively the Cargraphic/RS stage 1 which claims:
579Nm/4790 1/min
335Kw/6190 1/min
The stage 3 package with the big K24/26RS turbo claims:
643Nm/4530 1/min
362KW/6340 1/min
These figures with graphs are here:
http://www.cargraphic.com/index.php?...,1052/&start=0
These numbers are straight from the RS engine dyno - so please, how can VSs motor have 468lb/ft 636NM (measured) and apparently when clutch repaired a magical 490lb/ft 666NM
The chassis dyno is measuring the torque incorrectly which mathematically means its measuring the power incorrectly also.
This is not limited to this dyno, virtually all chassis dynos I see have larger than reality torque numbers.
12-05-2005, 03:31 PM
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The last 993tt was measured after i left, he showed 439bhp and 440lbft, which is more like what i was expecting (he's on an AmD ecu and 100 cell cats). Could the clutch slip have given an erroneous reading on the torque as the revs jumped?
12-05-2005, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by TB993tt
how can VSs motor have 468lb/ft 636NM (measured) and apparently when clutch repaired a magical 490lb/ft 666NM
The chassis dyno is measuring the torque incorrectly which mathematically means its measuring the power incorrectly also.
This is not limited to this dyno, virtually all chassis dynos I see have larger than reality torque numbers.
The chassis dyno is measuring the torque incorrectly which mathematically means its measuring the power incorrectly also.
This is not limited to this dyno, virtually all chassis dynos I see have larger than reality torque numbers.
Great analysis, and one that hopefully opens the eyes of many friends here about how misleading certain chassis dyno numbers can be.
From the several observations and comparisons that I have done of chassis dyno charts vs. acceleration numbers, I have reached a quite conclusive observation, that most of them reflect as wheel hp what in reality is flywheel hp, therefore inflating the readings by anywhere from 15-25%. Many others are even more optimistic. This can be due to a number of reasons, from "no correction" and "no standards" used, to plain and simple quick 5-6 second runs with minimal load.
The 2 magazines conducting the shootouts are clearly an example when you take the FVD car and see what their off-the-shelf kit showed on the chassis dyno, and the trap speed achieved.
Jean
12-05-2005, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by VerySideways
The last 993tt was measured after i left, he showed 439bhp and 440lbft, which is more like what i was expecting (he's on an AmD ecu and 100 cell cats). Could the clutch slip have given an erroneous reading on the torque as the revs jumped?
Even 440lb/ft 598NM looks too high, although I have to say the peak hps look reasonable - its just if there is error measuring the torque lower down the rev range, how is there suddenly no error further up near peak power - The whole method seems flawed.
Jean
I don't know if you saw this on 6Bling - absolutely hilarious - usual 700+ FWHP claims - but check out the 8 second dyno run - that's just how Porsche measure their hp NOT
mms://VHMedia.pinnaclesys.com/VidEncoded/8E1748C67B0E0191554ADAEA9D8BE943/542762_2.wmv
A new standard has been set for vigorous dyno practices and max heat soak...
12-06-2005, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by TB993tt
Jean
I don't know if you saw this on 6Bling - absolutely hilarious - usual 700+ FWHP claims - but check out the 8 second dyno run - that's just how Porsche measure their hp NOT
mms://VHMedia.pinnaclesys.com/VidEncoded/8E1748C67B0E0191554ADAEA9D8BE943/542762_2.wmv
I don't know if you saw this on 6Bling - absolutely hilarious - usual 700+ FWHP claims - but check out the 8 second dyno run - that's just how Porsche measure their hp NOT
mms://VHMedia.pinnaclesys.com/VidEncoded/8E1748C67B0E0191554ADAEA9D8BE943/542762_2.wmv
Was it a full 8 seconds? Seemed less than that to me.
No wonder they sometimes perform like they had xxxhp less. 
Last edited by Jean; 12-06-2005 at 04:12 PM.
12-14-2005, 02:47 PM
#87
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Had a ride in VerySideways turbo today, isnt he a happy and lucky chap.
Power all he way to 7000rpm, much better sound package thats sounding better by the day.... ohhh to have bigger pockets
Thanks VS
12-15-2005, 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Woodster
Jean,
what magazine articles are you speaking of with the FVD car?
thanks,
MK
what magazine articles are you speaking of with the FVD car?
thanks,
MK
Thanks,
-juha
