Excellence Values of 993s, what gives?
#16
Bruce Anderson seems to be a pretty smart guy. i don't think he is simply making numbers up. I think he is getting data somehow, somewhere, but the data is not representative of what most of us see here on rennlist. But to counter point, there have been a few great deals lately, like there always is. I saw a 'Lister to 'Lister sale of a nice C2S for $32k for example. However, these type deals are not common from what I can see. It would be nice if we could fix it or at least explain why there is such a discrepancy. I'm all for letter writing. And if we can influence Bruce Anderson a little, maybe that in turn will bring up valuations in KBB?
#17
#19
Here is my e mail to Bruce:
Hi Bruce
There seems to be a lot of discussion regarding your valuations in Excellence Magazine of the 993.
I am sure you get this every month from owners of different Porsche iterations, but your values seem low in comparison to what many of us have been seeing online. Granted, posted prices are not always received, yet it would not account for such a large gap.
The disscussion is on Rennlist 993 discussion forum...
Perhaps you are willing to chime in? (You could be the latest goldfish in the Pirranah tank!)
Anyways, as a 993 owner who recently paid alot for my car (yes, I overpaid at a dealer and knew it going in) I am curious about your thoughts.
Thank you for taking my e-mail and as a long time Porsche car owner, I have benefitted much from your contributions and knowlede.
I think that Bruce has contributed alot to the Porsche world and regardless of his opinions on 993 values. Therefore I am deferring to his "much better than mine" knowledge and not making too many assumptions to start out.
Hi Bruce
There seems to be a lot of discussion regarding your valuations in Excellence Magazine of the 993.
I am sure you get this every month from owners of different Porsche iterations, but your values seem low in comparison to what many of us have been seeing online. Granted, posted prices are not always received, yet it would not account for such a large gap.
The disscussion is on Rennlist 993 discussion forum...
Perhaps you are willing to chime in? (You could be the latest goldfish in the Pirranah tank!)
Anyways, as a 993 owner who recently paid alot for my car (yes, I overpaid at a dealer and knew it going in) I am curious about your thoughts.
Thank you for taking my e-mail and as a long time Porsche car owner, I have benefitted much from your contributions and knowlede.
I think that Bruce has contributed alot to the Porsche world and regardless of his opinions on 993 values. Therefore I am deferring to his "much better than mine" knowledge and not making too many assumptions to start out.
#20
My favorite post from another "Bruce Anderson" thread.
Guys, this *exact* same melodrama took place a couple of years ago, when BA was claiming in his market reports that good condition early 911S cars were worth $17,000 (or whatever his bizarre valuation was). All the early 911S guys went ballistic, saying the same thing: I'll take as many $17K cars as you can find. Not surprisingly, none were found...
To make a long story short (and I say this as someone who has written for Excellence, will write for the magazine in the future, and thinks highly of Pete Stout, the editor), Bruce's market valuations should simply be ignored. They are not the product of any kind of scientific or empirical inquiry into actual selling prices. What they are representative of, nobody knows. Maybe Bruce just pulls the numbers out of a hat.
To make a long story short (and I say this as someone who has written for Excellence, will write for the magazine in the future, and thinks highly of Pete Stout, the editor), Bruce's market valuations should simply be ignored. They are not the product of any kind of scientific or empirical inquiry into actual selling prices. What they are representative of, nobody knows. Maybe Bruce just pulls the numbers out of a hat.
#21
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...-anderson.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...e-blew-it.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...xcellence.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...s-are-low.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/911-foru...-on-crack.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...-go-again.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...e-blew-it.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...xcellence.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...s-are-low.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/911-foru...-on-crack.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...-go-again.html
#22
Excellence has always been WAY OFF in terms of their values. At this point I wonder if Bruce Anderson has an agenda... His numbers are even lower than KBB, hehe. And there is always a thread on this topic every year in every forum when the values for that particular model are published in Excellence. Anyway, if Bruce can find those sub-$35K C2S in excellent condition I'll take 3 please.
#23
If that were the case, I'd think PCNA would put a lot of pressure on PCA as well. But the valuations I've gotten from PCA are quite high. Both my RSA and the C4S were in the the mid $40K range.
Besides, why would PCNA want to devalue their cars? It's bad for business.
Besides, why would PCNA want to devalue their cars? It's bad for business.
#24
I don't understand all the angst. If you own a 993 and you have no interest in selling it, then has no cash value other than what minimal amount a bank might loan you with ithe car as collateral. If you're going to sell it, then do as the OP stated in his first post...Stand by your price until you get it...Or not.
Just MHO...
Terry
Just MHO...
Terry
#26
I don't understand all the angst. If you own a 993 and you have no interest in selling it, then has no cash value other than what minimal amount a bank might loan you with ithe car as collateral. If you're going to sell it, then do as the OP stated in his first post...Stand by your price until you get it...Or not.
Just MHO...
Terry
Just MHO...
Terry
I think Terry captured what should be the spirit of this thread.
This reminds me of conversations 3 years ago about the value of real estate. We all know today's realities.
#27
I don't understand all the angst. If you own a 993 and you have no interest in selling it, then has no cash value other than what minimal amount a bank might loan you with ithe car as collateral. If you're going to sell it, then do as the OP stated in his first post...Stand by your price until you get it...Or not.
Just MHO...
Terry
Just MHO...
Terry
#28
#29
I don't understand all the angst. If you own a 993 and you have no interest in selling it, then has no cash value other than what minimal amount a bank might loan you with ithe car as collateral. If you're going to sell it, then do as the OP stated in his first post...Stand by your price until you get it...Or not.
Just MHO...
Terry
Just MHO...
Terry
#30
I would like to quote Bruce Anderson in the last issue of Excellence, but I already threw (recycled) the magazine away. His quote went something like this... if you had to choose between a 993 and a 997... he made it clear that there was really no choice... a 997.
Bruce is a smart guy and has provided a lot of knowledge base to the Porsche world, but he seems to not realize or recognize that the the 993 is the car that pulled Porsche's a$$ out of red ink in 1995 and that the 993 is arguably the most beautiful Porsche ever made.
My good friend and next door neighbor just purchased a Speed Yellow 2003 996. It is a beautiful car (for a slab sided Porsche) and the sticker price in 2003 was around $80k and then the owner proceeded to put $10-15k into it. My friend purchased it 3 months ago for $29k with 39K miles on the clock.
This summer, our local Porsche dealer discounted every sticker price of every 911 Porsche on the lot by $20k. They still didn't sell. Porsche has had some real issues with the design of their 911s since 1999 (996 & 997).
The Boxster made Porsche profitable beginning in 1997 and continued its economic success with the Cayman and Cayman S.
Face it the 911 is a dying model because of the price and the design and Bruce and Excellence is just attempting to keep it afloat by systematically devaluing the the older 911 models.
Where was I going with this...??? The 993 will be the design that Porsche has to look back to in order to regain the popularity of the next 911 series (remember the Mustang?).
Hold on to your 993s very, very tight because they are the future! More than the monetary value, the 993 will always have a superior aesthetic value. IMHO.
Bruce is a smart guy and has provided a lot of knowledge base to the Porsche world, but he seems to not realize or recognize that the the 993 is the car that pulled Porsche's a$$ out of red ink in 1995 and that the 993 is arguably the most beautiful Porsche ever made.
My good friend and next door neighbor just purchased a Speed Yellow 2003 996. It is a beautiful car (for a slab sided Porsche) and the sticker price in 2003 was around $80k and then the owner proceeded to put $10-15k into it. My friend purchased it 3 months ago for $29k with 39K miles on the clock.
This summer, our local Porsche dealer discounted every sticker price of every 911 Porsche on the lot by $20k. They still didn't sell. Porsche has had some real issues with the design of their 911s since 1999 (996 & 997).
The Boxster made Porsche profitable beginning in 1997 and continued its economic success with the Cayman and Cayman S.
Face it the 911 is a dying model because of the price and the design and Bruce and Excellence is just attempting to keep it afloat by systematically devaluing the the older 911 models.
Where was I going with this...??? The 993 will be the design that Porsche has to look back to in order to regain the popularity of the next 911 series (remember the Mustang?).
Hold on to your 993s very, very tight because they are the future! More than the monetary value, the 993 will always have a superior aesthetic value. IMHO.