Car Dealer is screwing me!
10-10-2007, 05:07 PM
#78
Racer
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OK, then now I'm confused.
Per this page:
http://www.dol.wa.gov/vehicleregistration/fees.html
Registration fees appear to be minimal. You don't live in Seattle, and as such aren't burdened by the glorious monorail fee.
So the only tax I can figure out that you'd have paid if the 6.8% sales tax. You've stated you paid $6,000 in taxes. That would connote a $88,235 car.
I guess the question is: how much did you pay for this car (which you noted in your acquisition thread to have a lousy paint job and 38K miles)? Nice aero kit, by the way.
Per this page:
http://www.dol.wa.gov/vehicleregistration/fees.html
Registration fees appear to be minimal. You don't live in Seattle, and as such aren't burdened by the glorious monorail fee.
So the only tax I can figure out that you'd have paid if the 6.8% sales tax. You've stated you paid $6,000 in taxes. That would connote a $88,235 car.
I guess the question is: how much did you pay for this car (which you noted in your acquisition thread to have a lousy paint job and 38K miles)? Nice aero kit, by the way.
Last edited by Randy 1; 10-10-2007 at 06:07 PM. Reason: sales tax on cars is 6.8%, not the normal 6.5%
10-10-2007, 05:51 PM
#79
Rennlist Member
If the principle disturbs you more than the desire of ownership, I would return the car and deal with another dealer.
If the dealer is a Porsche dealer I would return the car then contact PCNA and explain exactly what happened.
From your story I would expect that the seller should offer you compensation for the wheel exchange as a goodwill gesture. If he really is unwilling to do that, then I would tend to return the car. However, that is just me.
Also, unless I know the used dealer personally, I would not buy a Porsche from an auto mill anymore than I would buy a puppy from a mall pet store. I just don't like buying from someone that isn't intimately familiar with the marque. Most of their cars come from auction purchases and their history may be suspect. Then again, if you exactly what you are buying it coul be a good deal, but let the buyer beware.
10-10-2007, 06:16 PM
#80
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
uuuummmmmmmm
Seems to me that GF and lawyer don't mix.Unless there is a crucial part of the story that you are not telling,it appears that you had all of the moral,ethics and power on your side.
.I stiil don't understand how you were able to drive off the lot without the completed paperwork,It
doesn't happen in my part of the woods.Good Luck.
Seems to me that GF and lawyer don't mix.Unless there is a crucial part of the story that you are not telling,it appears that you had all of the moral,ethics and power on your side.
.I stiil don't understand how you were able to drive off the lot without the completed paperwork,It
doesn't happen in my part of the woods.Good Luck.
When I drove off the lot, we had a done deal, it wasn't until he found out that the 996 could not be sold for a high price with 993 wheels that he changed the deal from Friday night to Tuesday it was all good.
10-10-2007, 06:17 PM
#82
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Seems simple enough to me ... he buys car from independent, independent then makes deal to sell the 996 Turbo to someone who wants it certified, so it gets passed through the local Porsche dealer who buys it off the independent, certifies it and (officially) sells it to the buyer.
It's common to "sign and drive" for a car at a dealership, especially after hours or over a weekend when the banks are closed, you qualify for financing based on your credit score and they put the paperwork through the next day, or within a few days, while you're driving on a temporary tag and the bill of sale until the title work is complete.
It would be idiotic to do something to harm the car and then return it, his girlfriend is right about that. She is also right that anything that gets lawyers involved is going to cost a hell of a lot more than a set of wheels and not worth the effort in the end.
If you love the car, keep the car and don't look back. If the principle bothers you, give the car back period. Life is too short to get worked up over a $1500 set of rims, either way.
Publicize the name of the dealer and you will cost them a lot more than a set of rims ... just don't tell your girlfriend/lawyer that you did it ;-)
It's common to "sign and drive" for a car at a dealership, especially after hours or over a weekend when the banks are closed, you qualify for financing based on your credit score and they put the paperwork through the next day, or within a few days, while you're driving on a temporary tag and the bill of sale until the title work is complete.
It would be idiotic to do something to harm the car and then return it, his girlfriend is right about that. She is also right that anything that gets lawyers involved is going to cost a hell of a lot more than a set of wheels and not worth the effort in the end.
If you love the car, keep the car and don't look back. If the principle bothers you, give the car back period. Life is too short to get worked up over a $1500 set of rims, either way.
Publicize the name of the dealer and you will cost them a lot more than a set of rims ... just don't tell your girlfriend/lawyer that you did it ;-)
10-10-2007, 06:26 PM
#83
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Everything about what he is doing is illegal.
The 996 is @ the local Porsche dealership, he consigned it threw them to sell, & they are CPOing the 996.
Originally Posted by Randy 1
OK, then now I'm confused.
Registration fees appear to be minimal. You don't live in Seattle, and as such aren't burdened by the glorious monorail fee.
So the only tax I can figure out that you'd have paid if the 6.8% sales tax. You've stated you paid $6,000 in taxes. That would connote a $88,235 car.
I guess the question is: how much did you pay for this car (which you noted in your acquisition thread to have a lousy paint job and 38K miles)? Nice aero kit, by the way.
Registration fees appear to be minimal. You don't live in Seattle, and as such aren't burdened by the glorious monorail fee.
So the only tax I can figure out that you'd have paid if the 6.8% sales tax. You've stated you paid $6,000 in taxes. That would connote a $88,235 car.
I guess the question is: how much did you pay for this car (which you noted in your acquisition thread to have a lousy paint job and 38K miles)? Nice aero kit, by the way.
10-10-2007, 06:33 PM
#84
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I don't get it....if you have a signed contract why would the deal expire?
You have the car and, I assume, it is registered and insured?
You either have a binding contract or you don't......I am not sure what would "expire" here. If the dealer doesn't send in the loan paperwork, he doesn't get his money. You, however, still own the car.
I assume you have copies of the contract and the loan paperwork - all signed up nicely?
You have the car and, I assume, it is registered and insured?
You either have a binding contract or you don't......I am not sure what would "expire" here. If the dealer doesn't send in the loan paperwork, he doesn't get his money. You, however, still own the car.
I assume you have copies of the contract and the loan paperwork - all signed up nicely?
10-10-2007, 06:33 PM
#85
Rennlist Member
"We" care because a frank disclosure will mark the market and make it easier for the following buyers and sellers. I'm happy to let people know what I've paid (search, and you will find), yet others will freely discuss their bedroom proclivities before any mention of money passes their lips/keyboards.
10-10-2007, 06:35 PM
#86
What are you missing? Deal was done with 996 wheels on the car. 4 days later he wants the wheels back, & will not deal, & will loose the 993 deal to sell the 996 as it's a much higher commission. He is holding my buyers contract for the wheels, with out it, the deal expires & he owens the car again.
Everything about what he is doing is illegal.
The 996 is @ the local Porsche dealership, he consigned it threw them to sell, & they are CPOing the 996.
Why do you care so much what I paid for it? It was a little under $6k, it did include tax, license, fees' & other things you get stuck with over the price of the car it self. I paid under $60k for it. He was asking $58, & I paid less then that. OK?
Everything about what he is doing is illegal.
The 996 is @ the local Porsche dealership, he consigned it threw them to sell, & they are CPOing the 996.
Why do you care so much what I paid for it? It was a little under $6k, it did include tax, license, fees' & other things you get stuck with over the price of the car it self. I paid under $60k for it. He was asking $58, & I paid less then that. OK?
Secondly, I would stand my (your) ground just to **** up his deal with the 996. GF lawyer or not, you are holding the cards here. The contracts were signed, and he let the car go with the wheels! 4 days after he wants the wheels back and says he won't give the lender the paperwork. Fine. Then he doesn't get paid for the car. Unless you are leaving out some critical detail (contingency), YOU have the upper hand here, because you have the car, you have the wheels, and he's trying to renege AFTER the deal was consumated. I WISH some **** would ever try this with me! Get a second opinion, GF lawyer or not! From a legal and logical perspective it just doesn't add up that you get screwed in this scenario. I would keep the car and fight him on principle alone, ******* up his commission on the 996 would only motivate me further.
10-10-2007, 06:41 PM
#87
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Stealth, here's what doesn't make sense. As you state yourself, "everything about what he is doing is illegal", if that's TRUE, then how does he have the upper hand?
Secondly, I would stand my (your) ground just to **** up his deal with the 996. GF lawyer or not, you are holding the cards here. The contracts were signed, and he let the car go with the wheels! 4 days after he wants the wheels back and says he won't give the lender the paperwork. Fine. Then he doesn't get paid for the car. Unless you are leaving out some critical detail (contingency), YOU have the upper hand here, because you have the car, you have the wheels, and he's trying to renege AFTER the deal was consumated. I WISH some **** would ever try this with me! Get a second opinion, GF lawyer or not! From a legal and logical perspective it just doesn't add up that you get screwed in this scenario. I would keep the car and fight him on principle alone, ******* up his commission on the 996 would only motivate me further.
Secondly, I would stand my (your) ground just to **** up his deal with the 996. GF lawyer or not, you are holding the cards here. The contracts were signed, and he let the car go with the wheels! 4 days after he wants the wheels back and says he won't give the lender the paperwork. Fine. Then he doesn't get paid for the car. Unless you are leaving out some critical detail (contingency), YOU have the upper hand here, because you have the car, you have the wheels, and he's trying to renege AFTER the deal was consumated. I WISH some **** would ever try this with me! Get a second opinion, GF lawyer or not! From a legal and logical perspective it just doesn't add up that you get screwed in this scenario. I would keep the car and fight him on principle alone, ******* up his commission on the 996 would only motivate me further.
I don't get it....if you have a signed contract why would the deal expire?
You have the car and, I assume, it is registered and insured?
You either have a binding contract or you don't......I am not sure what would "expire" here. If the dealer doesn't send in the loan paperwork, he doesn't get his money. You, however, still own the car.
I assume you have copies of the contract and the loan paperwork - all signed up nicely?
You have the car and, I assume, it is registered and insured?
You either have a binding contract or you don't......I am not sure what would "expire" here. If the dealer doesn't send in the loan paperwork, he doesn't get his money. You, however, still own the car.
I assume you have copies of the contract and the loan paperwork - all signed up nicely?
This is what he is holding over my head, today the deal falls through, & if I want the car will have to go through the whole process again. Yes, he is breaking the contract & doing things he is not suppose to, but he doesn't care, & he knows that I want the car, & there are no others in the area for sale.
10-10-2007, 06:51 PM
#88
Racer
don't you have a signed copy of your contract? send that to the bank.
still doesn't make a lot of sense to me..the whole situation.
No offense Stealth...but you seem to be getting frustrated with the feedback you've gotten here. When you were the one who posted your story and was looking for feedback. If you step outside of the situation you might see why so many people are wondering why you "gave in" so easily and quickly when you still stand behind your comment that what the seller is doing is illegal.
my 2 cents
still doesn't make a lot of sense to me..the whole situation.
No offense Stealth...but you seem to be getting frustrated with the feedback you've gotten here. When you were the one who posted your story and was looking for feedback. If you step outside of the situation you might see why so many people are wondering why you "gave in" so easily and quickly when you still stand behind your comment that what the seller is doing is illegal.
my 2 cents
10-10-2007, 06:54 PM
#89
Last time, the BANK needs the SIGNED contract with in 3 normal work days, or the loan with the bank expires, they terminate it, because they can not verify it with out the signed paperwork.
This is what he is holding over my head, today the deal falls through, & if I want the car will have to go through the whole process again. Yes, he is breaking the contract & doing things he is not suppose to, but he doesn't care, & he knows that I want the car, & there are no others in the area for sale.
This is what he is holding over my head, today the deal falls through, & if I want the car will have to go through the whole process again. Yes, he is breaking the contract & doing things he is not suppose to, but he doesn't care, & he knows that I want the car, & there are no others in the area for sale.
10-10-2007, 06:57 PM
#90
Rennlist Member
Yes, but doesn't the dealer have some obligation to submit the paperwork to the bank? If the financing was approved, then isn't he the one in the wrong for failing to do so within the three days? Does the bank already have your information on file with a record that you were approved?
My gut tells me that if he let you walk with the car, a signed contract, and approved financing, then it's his problem to get the money. Unless he can show that you falsified something in the contract or there was a specific contingency putting the burden on you to supply the bank with the final documents, why is the sales contract void?
Sorry to beat a dead horse, but I think this is an interesting discussion and there are lessons to be learned for here for future deals. I'd really like to understand how this dealer legally has a leg to stand on, given what Stealth has told us.
My gut tells me that if he let you walk with the car, a signed contract, and approved financing, then it's his problem to get the money. Unless he can show that you falsified something in the contract or there was a specific contingency putting the burden on you to supply the bank with the final documents, why is the sales contract void?
Sorry to beat a dead horse, but I think this is an interesting discussion and there are lessons to be learned for here for future deals. I'd really like to understand how this dealer legally has a leg to stand on, given what Stealth has told us.