Originally Posted by JPS

Should Stealth have answered the Qs or said, "I can't answer that yet as I'm trying to get to a solution", rather than the taste he was leaving of dodging and being less than forthcoming, I like to think the responses would have been very different.

Originally Posted by JPS

Begin

Stealth...Telling RL guys here to go to hell...not really classy. You asked peeps' opinions, they offered up a ton of good advice, and you kept dodging all the core questions. By MOST people's standards, you were overpaying, and the math you were showing made it look like you were REALLY overpaying, AND a dealer was screwing you over. People you don't even know on this board were concerned and hoping to help you. You chose not to respond in most cases, dodge the questions in others, and withhold information (price & dealer). A) That is not in spirit of RL, wherein if a mistake is made somewhere or a bad character found, we share with others, and B) makes you look less than up front and calls your motive, character, and truthfullness into question.

In short (too late) you brought the biting side of RL yourself. I'm not going to comment on the price you paid...everyone has to factor in the options, the "right now" and the PITA factor of waiting and going further. If it works for you, great. I'm happy and I'm thrilled that you at least got the PPI, something you probably learned from posts on RL. Quit with the "go to hell" comments and 'tude and tune into RL for the great resource it is.

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Originally Posted by vjd3

I beg to differ ... I see this kind of thing on here from time to time, usually when it involves a dealership experience.

I got hoodwinked by a high-end German car dealership years ago, when the 911 list was email-based, I was leased a new car which I was told had been driven by a manager and had some gentle demo miles on it (it was the color combo I wanted), only to discover that in fact it had been sold to someone else, driven for 900 miles over several weeks and then returned to the dealership in an ugly dispute over a paint finish issue -- because the original owner had left a leather case with some of his business cards under the seat, which I found and I called him to return them. They just lied to me and sold it as new because the title work had never been completed. It was not about a 911, but I knew most of the people on the list were knowledgable and hoped to get some insight on how to best proceed.

Some people were very supportive and had good suggestions, and other folks jumped all over me, accused me of lying, even to the point where a few a--holes even called dealerships in that area of the country until they figured out which dealer it was. Two actually spoke to the sales manager of the dealership, and posted the name of it -- somethiing I was being careful not to divulge because I was trying to work out an amicable settlement. The whole thing just turned into an incredible s---storm on the forum, including personal attacks on me. All because I was, in fact, wronged -- the dealership settled with me in the end -- but people can be too quick to judge and accuse when the facts are not all in front of them. And sometimes there's a reason why those facts are not available.

Stealth could've been more forthcoming, or at least said why he was not more clearly, and he may have shown a bit of attitude toward the end ... but go back and read how people accused him of lying, being a troll, speculated (wrongly) on how much he overpaid for the car, did tax calculations to try and figure out his purchase price ... I don't understand that attitude, all because he wanted to try and settle it before he divulged who the dealer in question was. Put yourself in his shoes ... a dealer did something that we all agree is pretty unethical, but he didn't want to give up the car over it, he wanted to vent and get a little advice ... and he winds up being put through the wringer.

There are always two sides to everything ... and I am a professional journalist and I am paid to be objective and skeptical as a result ... but rushing to judgment is just as bad as skewing the original facts, in my book.

This is a great forum, but sometimes you see the other side of things, which is kind of a shame, especially since I have been around for about 10 years now, when what eventually became Rennlist was really starting out. We've lost a lot of really good people as a result ... Viken comes to mind, and there are others if you've been around awhile.

Just my two cents ... there's a certain amount of risk when you post to a forum like this ... and I saw it coming and cringed when I read his post, it brought back some bad memories.

Originally Posted by Yunggrazhoppa

This was a very interesting and educational thread on many levels.

Before accusing someone of not being classy in defense of the board, it might be a good idea to read the whole thread. There were several RLers who were less than "classy" with their response to a newb seemingly caught in a ****ty circumstance looking for support. Dodging questions can be cause for some on RL to raise questions about the validity of a newb's claims but making assumptions as to why he may not be as forthcoming as some here would've liked so THEY can feel confident as to his representations...well that's just asinine. It's just as easy to assume that he's some dude looking for attention as it is to assume he's a guy who's never joined a forum before, who's caught in a situation that could have libelous repercussions and is getting advice from his lawyer GF to be careful with what he writes on a public forum as he seeks support.

Casting judgments based on partial information and potentially erroneous assumptions is as smart as believing everything you read on a public forum is true.