993 WB Values are UP!!!
09-30-2021, 01:55 AM
#1246
The 2S's generally get more than the 4S's. That might be part of the reason. There are also less of them on sale.
09-30-2021, 02:04 AM
#1247
I think it's an interesting psychological tipping point in the market when a 25 year old version of a car sells for more than a brand new one. It's an acknowledgement that a there's a growing subset of buyers who would rather have one of these stinky old ones than a very slick but sterile new one.
The demographic comment was an interesting point. The largest generation now in North America is reaching the peak of its earning potential, and can now afford the exciting sports cars from their childhood bedroom walls. I think enthusiasts of this age group in general have an ongoing fascination with authentic internal combustion cars, and no particular sense of obligation to dive into EVs that the next generation will probably feel.
The demographic comment was an interesting point. The largest generation now in North America is reaching the peak of its earning potential, and can now afford the exciting sports cars from their childhood bedroom walls. I think enthusiasts of this age group in general have an ongoing fascination with authentic internal combustion cars, and no particular sense of obligation to dive into EVs that the next generation will probably feel.
09-30-2021, 06:36 AM
#1248
I think it's an interesting psychological tipping point in the market when a 25 year old version of a car sells for more than a brand new one. It's an acknowledgement that a there's a growing subset of buyers who would rather have one of these stinky old ones than a very slick but sterile new one.
The demographic comment was an interesting point. The largest generation now in North America is reaching the peak of its earning potential, and can now afford the exciting sports cars from their childhood bedroom walls. I think enthusiasts of this age group in general have an ongoing fascination with authentic internal combustion cars, and no particular sense of obligation to dive into EVs that the next generation will probably feel.
The demographic comment was an interesting point. The largest generation now in North America is reaching the peak of its earning potential, and can now afford the exciting sports cars from their childhood bedroom walls. I think enthusiasts of this age group in general have an ongoing fascination with authentic internal combustion cars, and no particular sense of obligation to dive into EVs that the next generation will probably feel.
09-30-2021, 08:28 AM
#1249
Racer
The demographic comment was an interesting point. The largest generation now in North America is reaching the peak of its earning potential, and can now afford the exciting sports cars from their childhood bedroom walls. I think enthusiasts of this age group in general have an ongoing fascination with authentic internal combustion cars, and no particular sense of obligation to dive into EVs that the next generation will probably feel.
I've never seen one, but I'd bet 95% of the cars featured are internal combustion engines and manual trans...with really big wings, crazy camber and cool graphics.Go to a super car cars and coffee (we have a McLaren dealership close by) and the crowd is as interesting as the cars.
09-30-2021, 09:01 AM
#1250
Go to a super car cars and coffee (we have a McLaren dealership close by) and the crowd is as interesting as the cars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPXGJkV5m_Q&t=11s
09-30-2021, 03:15 PM
#1251
Addict
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HEY .. Who you call'in Stinky Old? ..... Cheers!
HEY .. Who you call'in Stinky Old? ..... Cheers!
I think it's an interesting psychological tipping point in the market when a 25-year-old version of a car sells for more than a brand new one. It's an acknowledgment that a there's a growing subset of buyers who would rather have one of these stinky old ones than a very slick but sterile new one.
Edit / Delete ...
Edit / Delete ...
09-30-2021, 04:20 PM
#1253
Rennlist Member
About high prices, high mileage cars and unexpected true expense of purchase/ownership. I passed on a 34,000 mile C2S with valve guide issues which was a surprise to me.
NOTA BENE-
Quote from Frank Beck of Beck's European, Scottsdale, a straight shooter
"At the risk of offending a few 993 owners on the final stretch I’m going to offer my pro opinion on the 993 top end debacle. All air-cooled 911s from 1987 on are notorious for premature valve guide failure which on ’96-’98 causes secondary air passages to clog up with carbon and throws a secondary air code. (Smog pump system.) It’s Russian Roulette (Can we say that anymore?) as all engines don’t have the problem below 60k miles but many do. It’s random but our experience has shown that ALL 964/993 engines will eventually need a top end rebuild by 100-120k miles; especially if driven in desert climates. The worst examples we’ve seen happened at 30-40k miles. We are very, very sensitive to this issue and warn all current and future owners of the potential malady. Common (errant) thinking is that a leak down test will help diagnose this condition. It won’t. Valve guide wear isn’t even in play on a leak down test. The best way to actually evaluate is oil consumption and a simple spark plug read after at least 1-2k miles on the plugs."
NOTA BENE-
Quote from Frank Beck of Beck's European, Scottsdale, a straight shooter
"At the risk of offending a few 993 owners on the final stretch I’m going to offer my pro opinion on the 993 top end debacle. All air-cooled 911s from 1987 on are notorious for premature valve guide failure which on ’96-’98 causes secondary air passages to clog up with carbon and throws a secondary air code. (Smog pump system.) It’s Russian Roulette (Can we say that anymore?) as all engines don’t have the problem below 60k miles but many do. It’s random but our experience has shown that ALL 964/993 engines will eventually need a top end rebuild by 100-120k miles; especially if driven in desert climates. The worst examples we’ve seen happened at 30-40k miles. We are very, very sensitive to this issue and warn all current and future owners of the potential malady. Common (errant) thinking is that a leak down test will help diagnose this condition. It won’t. Valve guide wear isn’t even in play on a leak down test. The best way to actually evaluate is oil consumption and a simple spark plug read after at least 1-2k miles on the plugs."
Last edited by Zed.; 09-30-2021 at 04:21 PM. Reason: spelling
The following users liked this post:
M. Schneider (09-30-2021)
09-30-2021, 04:45 PM
#1254
About high prices, high mileage cars and unexpected true expense of purchase/ownership. I passed on a 34,000 mile C2S with valve guide issues which was a surprise to me.
NOTA BENE-
Quote from Frank Beck of Beck's European, Scottsdale, a straight shooter
"At the risk of offending a few 993 owners on the final stretch I’m going to offer my pro opinion on the 993 top end debacle. All air-cooled 911s from 1987 on are notorious for premature valve guide failure which on ’96-’98 causes secondary air passages to clog up with carbon and throws a secondary air code. (Smog pump system.) It’s Russian Roulette (Can we say that anymore?) as all engines don’t have the problem below 60k miles but many do. It’s random but our experience has shown that ALL 964/993 engines will eventually need a top end rebuild by 100-120k miles; especially if driven in desert climates. The worst examples we’ve seen happened at 30-40k miles. We are very, very sensitive to this issue and warn all current and future owners of the potential malady. Common (errant) thinking is that a leak down test will help diagnose this condition. It won’t. Valve guide wear isn’t even in play on a leak down test. The best way to actually evaluate is oil consumption and a simple spark plug read after at least 1-2k miles on the plugs."
NOTA BENE-
Quote from Frank Beck of Beck's European, Scottsdale, a straight shooter
"At the risk of offending a few 993 owners on the final stretch I’m going to offer my pro opinion on the 993 top end debacle. All air-cooled 911s from 1987 on are notorious for premature valve guide failure which on ’96-’98 causes secondary air passages to clog up with carbon and throws a secondary air code. (Smog pump system.) It’s Russian Roulette (Can we say that anymore?) as all engines don’t have the problem below 60k miles but many do. It’s random but our experience has shown that ALL 964/993 engines will eventually need a top end rebuild by 100-120k miles; especially if driven in desert climates. The worst examples we’ve seen happened at 30-40k miles. We are very, very sensitive to this issue and warn all current and future owners of the potential malady. Common (errant) thinking is that a leak down test will help diagnose this condition. It won’t. Valve guide wear isn’t even in play on a leak down test. The best way to actually evaluate is oil consumption and a simple spark plug read after at least 1-2k miles on the plugs."
The following 2 users liked this post by rk-d:
alsamrob4 (09-30-2021),
M. Schneider (09-30-2021)
09-30-2021, 05:44 PM
#1255
Rennlist Member
When I was looking if the top and or bottom wasnt already done, and the car was at 50-60,000 miles, it was safe to factor a $20,000 spend down the road. then I encountered the 34,000 mile car with bad guides (according to the inspecting mechanic) that eventually got a $25,000 top end. But then again I have a 74,000 mile 95 cabrio that is fine. That same mechanic told me that the valve guide material was fine in 95 and the problem plagues 96 and up.
10-01-2021, 10:43 AM
#1256
Three Wheelin'
When I was looking if the top and or bottom wasnt already done, and the car was at 50-60,000 miles, it was safe to factor a $20,000 spend down the road. then I encountered the 34,000 mile car with bad guides (according to the inspecting mechanic) that eventually got a $25,000 top end. But then again I have a 74,000 mile 95 cabrio that is fine. That same mechanic told me that the valve guide material was fine in 95 and the problem plagues 96 and up.
10-01-2021, 12:21 PM
#1257
Rennlist Member
10-03-2021, 09:36 AM
#1259
Looks pretty cheap compare to recent C2S sale prices at BaT and PCar.
Holt isn't exactly known for underpricing his cars...
https://www.holtmotorsports.com/inve...era-2S-/322719
Holt isn't exactly known for underpricing his cars...
https://www.holtmotorsports.com/inve...era-2S-/322719
10-03-2021, 10:00 AM
#1260
Burning Brakes
Grey interior.... 58k