nothingbutgt3

Thank you Laurent,
I wrote them, but they don't produce the 993 RSR widening kit, only the gt2.
If I do it, it must be exactly the same as the original kit: cutting the fenders is already a trauma, don't want to think if the result is going to be bad looking.

samurai_k

Interesting to see the PCB and SMC components survive the pickling in the fresh water more than the aluminum suspension parts. Great work!

nothingbutgt3

definitely


I now found a GT3 used crankshaft in perfect conditions, whose part number is

996 021 102 91

What must be verified to prevent the possibility of buying a crankshaft with defects?
What are the advantages of using this crankshaft on a 993 engine with standard 3,6 liter pistons, that is going to run at maximum 6900/7000 rpm? Does it eventually exist a 3,6 piston kit with seats into the piston top that enable to use a higher valve lift?

I also found the distribution wheel that was used on the 959: my supplier recommends using it, because it would be lighter than that used on 964 and 993, but with the same geometric characteristics.

With the crankshaft of the GT3 do I have to use other connecting rods or can I use the same ones as the 993? What benefits from the possible use of other connecting rods?

I am also going to install the mechanical rocker arms of the 964: in this regard, what kind of advantages can I get from the DLC treatment of the cam rocker shafts?

And what other parts can make sense to treat DLC?

Crankshaft? Distribution camshafts? Piston pins?

uscarrera

Wow just found this thread what a project gotta say EVERY yellow car is worth saving.good luck with your efforts
Rich

nothingbutgt3

speaking aloud ... if the 997 GT3 RS 4.0 with indirect injection had 500 hp at 8250 rpm, a 993 4.0 basically sharing same crankcase, using same rank shaft, same lightweight connecting rods, ITB, same GT3RS intake, motorsport injectors, why should have less than 450hp?

I get voices from the “control room” that the difficulty with the 964 and 993 rsr engines was to make them run above 7500 rpm, or those who made them run higher, inevitably saw everything break, due to the too high weight of the pistons.

So I guess the nodal point for such a powerful, but also reliable application, I don't think should pass only through redesigned and billet heads, but above all using pistons able to allow rotation speeds up to almost 9000 rpm without going to affect reliability.
And I also believe that due to the high rotation speeds, wall friction reduction between the cylinder and piston is essential.

is there anyone here that has already tried the over 8000rpm way? Do already exist pistons fur such an application?
I saw many use steel rods, but someone uses panel ti rods, which I suppose must be lighter...why then steel rods for such an application?

cobalt

^^^ The advantages of a water cooled vs air-cooled engine. Heat is the killer.

There are many components available today that didn't exist back then. The 996 Cup cars received Ti connecting rods, lightened and balanced crank water jackets to keep down the heat and eventually hydraulic lifters in 2001.

nothingbutgt3

if memory doesn't play strange jokes, I think the 959 had liquid-cooled heads ... with 4 valves, not 2...

For the moment, this week end I took home the varioram intake, plus the 2 cup rear-view mirrors and the odometer, so I'm pretty happy.

Then I went to the vintage car fair in Padua, where I could observe and photograph very closely the details of the bodywork of the 993 GT2, coming directly from the Porsche Museum.






there is a big difference between seeing a 993 gt2 in picture, especially in light colors and seeing it live: the connecting surfaces of the enlargements in photos seem much more pronounced than live.

I must say with those riveted enlargements it is really a sneaky tiger cub ...

Talat

The chap working on my GT2 rep has all the moulds for the RSR kit - he used to race these cars in period. I think he can reproduce them in fibreglass, carbon or carbon kevlar - if you still need a kit then please let me know and I'll get him to price up a kit when I see him at the weekend.

nothingbutgt3

Thank you Talat,
yes, I still need the kit, enlargements front and rear, plus sideskirts.

I would like to get a perfect tribute of the bodyparts: even the rivets must be of the right shape and size, do you think they can be found?

nothingbutgt3

step 1 is finally taking shape: the entering week I bring all the engine parts to the mechanic shop.
After having spoken and considered many different solutions, the engine should be more or less rebuilt with the following configuration: it’ll remain 3.6 liters, retaining its original cylinders, pistons, connecting rods, engine block and ignition/distributors.
Instead an upgrade will be made using 993 gt2 oil pump, varioram intake (and its European DME control unit), mechanical 964 rocker arms, single mass flywheel and sportier cam shafts.

Any advice regarding which is better between the CUP 964.102.239.81 and RS 964.102.239.31 Single Mass Flywheel? Pros, cons? Between the two there is more or less 1,4kgs weight difference.

Advice regarding which camshafts would suit better such a configuration, considering the pistons will remain standard and that valves, springs, etc. could be bought new? Does it make sense investing money here?

Some details remain to be defined: frankly speaking I don’t know what to expect as final result, ignoring how much a single or all multiple choices would change it.
The intention is to build a long lasting engine, able to run in a very reliable way up to 7000rpm, not crazy high I know, but I would like to work it out the best possible, optimizing the parts I already have.

For example, the heads are the ones of the 272cv version, does it make sense to enlarge the valve seats and consequently use larger and lighter valves? what are the problems possibly related to such a choice?

Does it make sense to handle DLC rocker arms, camshafts, crankshaft?
what kind of power gain should be to expect as a consequence of friction reduction? Side effects?

the other aspect that I asked myself is the following: there is any modification to be done to the lubrication circuit in order to use the mechanical rocker arms instead of its hydraulic lifters?

Right now I'm looking for the dme motor cable, the engine wiring harness and the aspects regarding the electrical system.

Sire

nothingbutgt3

if you tell me with a minimum of notice, maybe we organize ourselves for a meeting, with or without Porsche.

If you wish I can also organize a small welcoming committee ....every occasion is good to get these wonderful creatures out of their garage.


In the lasat days, together with Electrical System, DME engine management cable, etc. I am also looking for the right combination of Flywheel+Clutch Disc.

I learned only now that there are 2 versions available of Lightweight Flywheel, one that weights approx. 4,4 kgs an even lighter one that weights 3,0 kgs


lightest one (996 CUP?)


lighter (M003)

There are also different kind of clutch discs


Sachs Performance, 4 bigger spings, organic, damped


Sachs Racing, sintered


Sachs Performance, 6 smaller springs, organic, damped

The LimeYellow 993 will be 95% used on the track, but I need to arrive there without using a trailer, at least until when there will be installed the first engine step, so what I think is that probably the sintered should be too much unusable on the street, but I don't know the difference between the 2 other damped versions.
does anyone know?

samurai_k

I did some research on this topic as I replaced the FW and clutch as well.

There is a slightly heavier LWFW as well by Rauch for completeness.
https://www.rauchandspiegel.com/prod...ro-rs-version/

I ended up using the M003 LWFW version you referenced that came with my car already. Motor spools up nicely and was easy to rev match on the downshift.

As for the clutch disc, the cup version of the clutch disc I have been told was like an "on and off" experience and not suitable for the street.

As for the pressure plate, you can either use the standard one or the TT/GT3 one for extra clamping power. I saw you are going to keep your motor to standard bhp output, in that case the standard clutch and pressure plate is more than sufficient. The builder on my upgraded 3.8 motor put in a TT/GT3 version and I ended up keeping that setup on the refresh. The PP and clutch are standard parts from Sachs so there are non porsche p/n so you can save some EUR.

If you go with the TT/GT3 setup, it has a heavier clutch pedal feel as a consequence, which I addressed with upgrading the slave cylinder with a MPL unit

https://www.mpl-tuningparts.de/english/porsche.html

Here are some good reference threads:

https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...-your-lwf.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...wfw-setup.html

nothingbutgt3

Thank you very much Samurai for your advices!
I still wonder what's the difference between the two Sachs Performance damped cluch discs...

I don't think it will be standard, but definitely the STEP 1 will not be an RSR engine: using the mechanical rocker arms, working heads for better flow, changing the valves, springs, retainers, much more aggressive camshafts, adding the varioram and DLC threating what is necessary and enhancing the rpm limiter, together with a balance or rotating masses like a racing engine, should be the finest tune of the 3,6 liter engine, which is not how the engine came out from Stuttgart.

Upgrading the slave cylinder what kind of benefits might give?

I found also a brake booster (the 993 turbo/RS one) for a very good price, does it play any role adding it onto the standard braking system? I was thinking adding more available pressure wouldn't be bad.

samurai_k

Here are the part numbers as promised for the TT/GT3 clutch and pressure plate

Clutch disc
996-116-015-34 (replaces: 964-116-011-30, 964-116-011-31, 964-116-011-61, 996-116-015-30, 996-116-015-31, 996-116-015-32), alternate number: (Sachs) 1878 005 625


Pressure plate
964-116-028-53 - alternate number: (Sachs) 3082 001 522

In regards to the MPL slave upgrade, it helps with reducing the effort to push the clutch pedal to activate the clutch. I am in the middle of installing it on my transmission but you basically disassemble to the stock slave cylinder and use its parts to make a slave cylinder with the the upgraded housing and plunger by MPL.

From my understanding the 993 TT clutch booster is separate from the 993TT and 993 C4S brake booster.