Hunky

That is for sure. Damn gorgeous car.

CodyBigdog

Since a number of other premier automotive brands that are going hybrid, or all electric have been mentioned….thought I would add that the engineers at BMW’s M-division are joining the club…and since mandates have now been kicked down the road to 2035, I don’t think the move, now, is necessitated by any (politically) driven emergency to convert.

https://apple.news/A4kradWsiQF-pjtZzpeaLNw

”Or will we just stick with good ol' internal combustion for another generation, in spite of everything?The boss of BMW's M program has absolutely no doubt: battery-electric is the future. "The pure electric high-performance vehicle, when it comes out, the one we're currently working on, will beat everything you've ever seen," Franciscus Van Meel, the director of BMW's M division, said. "It will make it very difficult to say, 'I don't want to have this.'"

…as a former M4 owner myself, I’m intrigued….although would be happy if their front grill returned to something from years past.

yrralis1

BMW is playing the middle ground quite wisely . Their cars are plug in or mild hybrid which we are seeing ib cars like the Cayenne . This 911 is a totally different ball game with a T -hybrid .


See below an extract from BMW press club re the MHT/MHEV system.....
..... It consists of a 48-volt starter generator that enables particularly intensive braking energy recuperation along with an additional battery to store the electricity that is generated in this way. The 48-volt battery not only supplies the electrically operated vehicle functions, it also makes its energy available to generate additional drive power. For this purpose the current flows back to the starter generator, which now takes on the role of an electric drive. This reduces the load on the combustion engine, allowing it to run as often as possible in an efficiency-optimised load range. What is more, the generator creates an electric boost during acceleration. This instantly available additional output of 8 kW/11 hp supports dynamic power delivery during start and acceleration.

There are some who have fared well with the BMW's but not all. Theres a lot more like this .
https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1981746

The 330E is dropped .
https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...soars-by-14000

CodyBigdog

I thought I read that the new M would be all electric? Not a hybrid?

While the Porsche is considered a “hybrid”, I believe it is the only (I could be wrong) hybrid, used in mass produced cars, that can’t run exclusively off the battery. So now we have a 3rd category for hybrids:

(1) Traditional (early) hybrid cars that used regenerative braking to recharge the battery…and allowed those cars to go short distances at lower speeds on electric only propulsion.

(2) Plug-in hybrids that have a bigger battery that can be re-charge both from the wall and from regenerative braking. These hybrids also allow the car to function using only the battery…and they can attain higher speeds and go further (because of the bigger battery) than non-plug-in hybrids

(3) With the release of the 992.2, I believe that Porsche has established a new category of hybrids, for mass produced cars, that uses a small battery to provide additional propulsion for the car - in certain driving situations. But unlike the first two hybrids, the 992.2 can not be driven on battery only. The “hybrid” system in the 992.2 is ONLY to augment propulsion from its bigger ICE brother.

ipse dixit

Rumored to be PHEV using using the same 4.4-litre twin-turbo V8 engine and plug-in hybrid system of the XM

CodyBigdog

Thanks.

Perhaps my confusion has to do with his use of the term “EV’s”. As a EV owner, who’s also been on a lot of EV forums, most people (maybe all) don’t consider a hybrid as an EV. I guess technically it is…but most people make that distinction by labeling their car as either a EV, or a hybrid, or a pug-in hybrid.

I also got the impression that he was talking more about the next generations of the BMW sports sedans, or maybe even a EV sports car…and not SUV’s (which might make more sense to be plug-in-hybrid)? Competition for the 992.2, Lucid or Model S Plaid…in the article, they did reference the 992.2 and the Hyundai ionic5 (whatever).

God knows the world does not need another SUV variant. Just my opinion. Yes, I know SUV’s sell best.

aggie57

I think the confusion is because many manufacturers want customers to consider their hybrids and particularly plug-on hybrids to be 'EVs' whereas many of us with full EV's (a.k.a. 'BEVs') haven't seen them that way. Either way it's electrification in one shape or another, and the end game is full BEV with some PHEV to address specific use cases.

yrralis1

When he said "2035 " he was confused as well . That s the full ICE ban .https://www.europarl.europa.eu/topic...2035-explained

The full legislation can be found here as to the present .
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...lex:32023R0851

Hunky

"Full ICE ban". Would ICE vehicles need to "banned" with a governmental iron fist if EVs were desireable?

aggie57

service'sWell, as a EV (full EV, not hybrid ) they are desirable for 95% of use cases.

But to the ‘need to be banned’ point, I’m writing this sitting outside a Starbucks on a beautiful sunny 80 degree day in SoCal and am eternally grateful to the visionary governments that made this possible by taking on the auto and oil industries back in the 60’s and 70’s. And for the relatively low emission, more powerful, and much more advanced 911 that I also own which would not exist if not for them.

Don’t be fooled by all the ‘talking points’ across social media and some news services; 90% of the arguments you hear are fed to us by interest groups and lobbyists paid for and supported by the oil industry. They know however that moving away from fossil fuels and to renewables, real renewables, is inevitable and they’re just trying to buy time.

M3Inline6

Exactly! California is trying that nonsense too, but it won’t fly. Outside of the Tesla crowd (…the more affluent EV ownership base), the overwhelming majority aren’t interested. All one needs to do is look around outside of their metropolitan bubble.

yrralis1

These aren’t talking points. I posted the laws I even gave the history on this thread, but people were too busy arguing the fact that I simply wasn’t gushing over the new car. They didn’t want to look at the bigger picture as to why this car even exists. 2035 is the projected year in which Europe will ban the manufacturer of all ice cars entirely. They have already begun their tightening process and we’re seeing it out with our cars. The United States has backed off. We place no role in the decisions of Porsche or anything that went on with this in Europe.

aggie57

You miss my point; I was responding to @Hunky ‘s comment, not yours.

yrralis1

several states tried to join California. Virginia backed out.. https://www.13newsnow.com/article/ne...d-8e09b003f9f2

yrralis1

his comment is spot on. People in the USA are not gonna put up with this BS. You take away some guys pick up truck in Montana and then go telling him he has to charge it with electricity in the middle of the wilderness and see how long that lasts before states gather enough support to vote this out