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This is literally Porsche’s plan. They stated it flat out. Watching a bunch of folks who don’t know anythjng about the auto business or maybe even any business claim Porsche got it wrong is hilarious.
The part people refuse to acknowledge is the miracle of capitalism. Porsche is going to raise prices on those enthusiasts models. Obviously. Because the market will accept it.
I don’t disagree that Porsche will further raise prices on their enthusiast models. It is ridiculous how high the ADM already is on a 992 RS or GT3 Touring compared with the 991 versions.
Those experiences will be harder to get and fewer people chasing them so Porsche will squeeze out every dollar they can from those who will pay.
However, the point some are making is whether or not that success will continue with the less enthusiast oriented models such as the Panamera, and future 992.2 Carrera models?
those cars just don’t deliver the emotions to justify their costs and relative performance.
"It's through the lends of today with hybrids, small displacement engines and EV jellybeans that the Zagato stands out as a modern classic. Maybe it's just me getting old and boring but I don't value high speed or immense grip anymore. All I want is for a car to make me feel special."
Meanwhile Porsche continues to beat their chest about Nurburgring times as if that's what matters...
I don’t disagree that Porsche will further raise prices on their enthusiast models. It is ridiculous how high the ADM already is on a 992 RS or GT3 Touring compared with the 991 versions.
Those experiences will be harder to get and fewer people chasing them so Porsche will squeeze out every dollar they can from those who will pay.
However, the point some are making is whether or not that success will continue with the less enthusiast oriented models such as the Panamera, and future 992.2 Carrera models?
those cars just don’t deliver the emotions to justify their costs and relative performance.
the new gts will be just as emotive as any turbo pdk car, for whatever that means to you. It doesn’t weigh any more than a 992.1 turbo and has the similar hp. The ev motors are reducing turbo lag and providing torque fill. They can be MORE emotive than a vanilla turbo If the naturally aspirated power curve gives you feels.
if raw NA is important to you, than you’re stuck with the GT department. Just the same as the 992.1
I have an Artura and it is significantly more emotive and enjoyable than either the 991 or 992 TTS.
no, it doesn’t replace a MT. But folks thinking some electrons change how basically the entire 992.1 non-gt line up feels really need some ****ing Valium and perspective
the new gts will be just as emotive as any turbo pdk car, for whatever that means to you. It doesn’t weigh any more than a 992.1 turbo and has the similar hp. The ev motors are reducing turbo lag and providing torque fill. They can be MORE emotive than a vanilla turbo If the naturally aspirated power curve gives you feels.
The 992.2 GTS and 992.1 Turbo could be a very good analogy even though different suspension and brakes and probably other things.
We will see based on the reviews and our own testing. If it is a better car I really dont care much for the button and the tachometer - yes traditional could be better but really not a reason imho not to get a great - if it is - new car.
Im actually a musician. A piano in 2024 is still played the same way it was when invented in 1700 on the other hand what we are seeing and what im talking about is that the 911 should not change the way its driven for the sake of changing it.
Then you know Taylor Swift is using stems and backing tracks during performances. Everyone is now. As someone in the industry I can tell you it’s good for putting money in the bank, but not for music purists. The thing is, only a small percentage of fans care.
Your analogy is actually spot on and it’s exactly what Porsche is doing with the 992.2. You just didn’t go deep enough.
So you’re claiming that in the U.S. the 911 buyer is the same market as the Hyundai family hatchback buyer and they are looking for the same things in a car as regards practicality and driving experience.
What a totally ridiculous take that is. That’s about the stupidest, most patently false thing I’ve ever read on this forum. Ha ha. Incredible.
No I think it is quite different what they are saying:
1) Most people I know that have a single 911 drive that as daily. Some even dont have a second car, their wife does.
2) Again discussing with people that have a few more cars and other “better” daily ones - including myself and by daily car I mean a good SUV like a cayenne and Macan - the preference is to drive the 911 in the morning whether is a short commuting to work or a longer business trip.
3) I have a friend that owns the GT3 and the new land rover V8?2 door defender. Even though the defender is considered a better daily he has trouble in the morning choosing it - he mostly uses the GT3
A 911 - and other sportscars - give you a smile everytime you start them and even is an “experience” using them for stupid daily tasks.
I dont understand why not use the better car that gives you a smile and emotion - if you can - compared to even using a cayenne or macan which are the closest “feeling” everyday cars.
P.S
1) If you do not have parking at work, need to daily carry passengers or skmething similar, then this does not mean it applies to most 911 owners.
2) I have posted this again: it seems on RL, most people like to claim that they always drive spirited, always like fast, always take turns and like to “feel them”, analog is the only thing you need and every 911 drive is like a day in the track. It is my opinion that in general most 911 owners use the car in the opposite way and of course sometimes use the car for spirited drives.
Consumers don't want EVs if given a straight choice
Speak for yourself. I won't drive anything but an EV for the DD. Why would I want to sit in bumper to bumper traffic in my Porsche while driving on crappy potholed roads? If I need to take a short hop to the store, with an ICE car, the coolant doesn't even get up to temp much less the oil; as you should know, that's really bad for the engine. I save the manual gas Porsche for the fun drives.
As for the dash, if I were Porsche, I'd be using the same digital display across as many cars as possible to save money. I wouldn't be surprised if Porsche starts charging a software upgrade so that you can change the color and layout of your digital dash to your heart's content. And that save Porsche money from all the extra costs and complexity of having different physical tach background colors related to part numbers, inventory, the headache of SAP, etc.
Anyone driving a 991.2 or 992 with PDK, the hybrid is just doing to improve performance everywhere. Faster response, more power, and there should be some real-world fuel economy improvement. The loss of the manual makes no difference to anyone already driving a PDK which is the vast majority of Porsche owners and the 991.2/992 were already turbo, so not the NA flat-6 noises. And the gas engine still makes vroom vroom noises.
As for as making profits, Ferreri is the clear leader, but Porsche is number 2. So Porsche is doing something right.
No I think it is quite different what they are saying:
1) Most people I know that have a single 911 drive that as daily. Some even dont have a second car, their wife does.
2) Again discussing with people that have a few more cars and other “better” daily ones - including myself and by daily car I mean a good SUV like a cayenne and Macan - the preference is to drive the 911 in the morning whether is a short commuting to work or a longer business trip.
3) I have a friend that owns the GT3 and the new land rover V8?2 door defender. Even though the defender is considered a better daily he has trouble in the morning choosing it - he mostly uses the GT3
A 911 - and other sportscars - give you a smile everytime you start them and even is an “experience” using them for stupid daily tasks.
I dont understand why not use the better car that gives you a smile and emotion - if you can - compared to even using a cayenne or macan which are the closest “feeling” everyday cars.
P.S
1) If you do not have parking at work, need to daily carry passengers or skmething similar, then this does not mean it applies to most 911 owners.
2) I have posted this again: it seems on RL, most people like to claim that they always drive spirited, always like fast, always take turns and like to “feel them”, analog is the only thing you need and every 911 drive is like a day in the track. It is my opinion that in general most 911 owners use the car in the opposite way and of course sometimes use the car for spirited drives.
The connection drivers feel with an analog tach , the turning of a key, a manual transmission the sound of an engine is not related to age or nostalgia. The connection is human and connection inspires people of any age no matter how modern times have changed. .
When artists write songs most are still being written in guitars , pianos, drums that have not changed in centuries, even if iPads and computers are available that make the same sounds. No matter the genre you can go to any teen pop concert today and musicians are still playing those same instruments Mozart played.
when painters and designers work they do so with a pencil and physical paint like they did centuries ago to, not everything is done in an iPad.
if you look at driving as an art form (it is) it’s the exact same thing.
I think car manufacturers are getting it wrong by digitizing something that does not need to just because some focus group told them that’s what the new generation wants. Tesla gets away with it because it’s a new type of instrument. But to try change old instrument designs and digitize them for progress is wrong and removes the magic older people and younger people feel in a 911
Some of the tactile, so called 'analog' things are actually not. The key is still digital. It could have been a button from day one or even something on the touch screen. Turning that **** is just to give the driver a false sense of a key. If that's what you are looking for, then ok. The 'analog' tach is the same. In the background it's just a CPU running things. Things have been digital for a long time and the engine going hybrid has been mentioned by Porsche when they announced the 992.1.
The analog music instruments analogy doesn't really work here. Maybe if you talk about electronic drums, etc.
I personally hate the direction Porsche is heading and have Zero interest for an EV or hybrid for my fun / weekend cars.
To me - the 991.2 was the Perfect combination of analog controls with just enough modern tech like rear view camera and Apple carplay. There is really nothing more you need.
Things like buttons, analog gauges, exhaust sounds is what gives these cars character and makes them memorable. I was at a show yesterday with bunch of 356s and older 911s - its a treat just to look at the dashboard of those cars. There is no passion looking at $2 LCD screen made in China and bunch of black plastic on center console.
I’m ok with Hybrid model as long as pure ICE is still offered to regular buyers and not what’s happened with GT cars that are only for VIPs.
At the end of the day - its sad time to be a car fan that wants more Engaging cars with great engine noise rather than heavy, fast, and tech laden GT cars.
For all the trouble of the digital instrument cluster, I'm surprised no HUD was revealed as an option like the other P-cars with full digital. That might be a more justifiable reason for the lack of analog tach but alas.
I personally hate the direction Porsche is heading and have Zero interest for an EV or hybrid for my fun / weekend cars.
You wouldn't take a 918 as a "fun / weekend car"? I know I would.
To be honest, most of the 911 buyers do not buy the car, or even view the car, as a "fun / weekend" car. Most consider the 911 nowadays a GT cruiser, something you commute to work in and daily about 90% of the time.
The so-called "fun / weekend cars" in the current Porsche lineup are really the GT3/GT4 cars, either in regular or RS guise.
This isn't to say that no one buys a 911 as a "fun / weekend" car, but those buyers are the ever shrinking minority. Especially given the current price point and the fact that the 911, probably since at least the 996 generation, has not been "special" enough to reserve just for 2 days out of the week.
And the 911 is also far too practical to spend more time in the garage than on the road, which I guess is both a blessing and a curse.
You wouldn't take a 918 as a "fun / weekend car"? I know I would.
To be honest, most of the 911 buyers do not buy the car, or even view the car, as a "fun / weekend" car. Most consider the 911 nowadays a GT cruiser, something you commute to work in and daily about 90% of the time.
The so-called "fun / weekend cars" in the current Porsche lineup are really the GT3/GT4 cars, either in regular or RS guise.
This isn't to say that no one buys a 911 as a "fun / weekend" car, but those buyers are the ever shrinking minority. Especially given the current price point and the fact that the 911, probably since at least the 996 generation, has not been "special" enough to reserve just for 2 days out of the week.
And the 911 is also far too practical to spend more time in the garage than on the road, which I guess is both a blessing and a curse.
I’m not sure what your daily driver is…but maybe go pick up a Kia soul or CRV and report back on if you still think a 992 isn’t much more fun.
06-02-2024, 07:42 PM
- if you can - compared to even using a cayenne or macan which are the closest “feeling” everyday cars.
