Porsche got it wrong I’ll explain
06-04-2024, 10:52 AM
#106
Yes, after driving the Dark Horse I would really like to do that. Those GT350s have an incredible sound when properly run out.
06-04-2024, 11:43 AM
#107
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detansinn (06-04-2024)
06-04-2024, 11:59 AM
#108
06-04-2024, 01:07 PM
#110
If you (not you specifically, but "you" generically) are putting 20k in 3 years, and only driving the car on weekends, that's some serious weekend jaunts.
There's 26 weeks in a year, and thus 52 weekend days, and over three years that give you something like 156 days, give or take.
If you just drove the car 156 days, and racked up 20k miles in those days, that means you're averaging 128 miles each day, every single weekend day, for 3 consecutive years.
That's some serious dedication.
For me personally, if I was putting in 128 miles each time I took out a 911, after about the 20th day, I would be bored to death and probably just sell the ******* car.
There's 26 weeks in a year, and thus 52 weekend days, and over three years that give you something like 156 days, give or take.
If you just drove the car 156 days, and racked up 20k miles in those days, that means you're averaging 128 miles each day, every single weekend day, for 3 consecutive years.
That's some serious dedication.
For me personally, if I was putting in 128 miles each time I took out a 911, after about the 20th day, I would be bored to death and probably just sell the ******* car.
Also many 3yr old 911s have way less than 10k miles.
Daily driver is at least 12k miles per year in most places in US.
Well not everyone is fortunate as you to have a stable of exotics to keep themselves entertained. I do agree that having more than 1 fun car is always the better way but folks may be limited by garage space depending where they live.
Last edited by R N M; 06-04-2024 at 01:11 PM.
06-04-2024, 01:52 PM
#111
Three Wheelin'
06-04-2024, 01:57 PM
#112
Lots of Euro Green Weenie heads explode over cars like that. So stupid. Looks as if they are going to force this Lamda BS on us while China has over 300 coal fired power plants under construction.
06-04-2024, 03:12 PM
#113
Rennlist Member
Let's be honest, if Porsche would sell in 2024 a brand new 911 from the 80's or 70's it could literally be the only car they sell forever with the demand it would get. Teens and Older people would absolutely pay more for it than a modern hybrid 911. This is what im trying to say in my post. All the digitization in the name of modern times or "everyone else is doing it" so we have to is a bunch of crap. The reason why people pay up hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars for older Porsches is not nostalgia or because the buyer is "old" , it's that they connect more with humans and people are willing to pay up for them. That is what Porsche should be striving to do. Im pretty sure the founder of the company would be doing that, unlike the "focus group" people
06-04-2024, 05:01 PM
#114
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Generally most people want to get an electric car. Good or bad the goverments and the manufacturers have convinced most people. I will not get into the pros and cons - and I agree there are lots of cons - but I do not see demand of hybrids and full EVs changing. I do see though the demand of ICE only cars decreasing.
The faster they make them, the less I want them. It’s too bad my BMW has an electric motor. It’s needed for that mild hybrid start-stop garbage, but I’d rather it have no electric motors at all. I’m even fine if the car was a bit slower and louder.
I love burning gasoline. I love the smell. I want cars to be less efficient and louder. My R8 with its V10 is just so satisfying to listen to, and to smell afterward. And so what if we are adding CO2 to the air? Good! We already have too much population on this planet. Get rid of them! Besides, the Carboniferous was a great period in Earth’s history—dragonflies 5 feet wide! How awesome would it be to see those again?
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Hunky (06-04-2024)
06-04-2024, 05:29 PM
#116
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Porsche would go bankrupt selling air cooled 911s as their only car. How do I know this? Because they nearly did so in the 90s.
There have been a of lot regulations in the past 40 years that have taken those old designs off of the road. The safety improvements driven by regulations have saved countless lives. People complain about emissions and MPG requirements, but the modern cars make the kind of power we could only dream of decades ago while also being incredibly efficient. No, I don't want to go back to points-based ignition systems, horrible electrics/relays/regulators, and single digit fuel economy. I have zero nostalgia when it comes to fighting the constant corrosion battle to keep cars of that vintage on the road.
This is what im trying to say in my post. All the digitization in the name of modern times or "everyone else is doing it" so we have to is a bunch of crap. The reason why people pay up hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars for older Porsches is not nostalgia or because the buyer is "old" , it's that they connect more with humans and people are willing to pay up for them. That is what Porsche should be striving to do. Im pretty sure the founder of the company would be doing that, unlike the "focus group" people
Porsche does precious little because "everyone else is doing it". As for digitization, they add things like rain mode, because they were tired of being sued by widows of people with more money than skill (Oh, that rain mode warning message gets logged in the blackbox of the car in the event that ignore it and bin it). Sure, Porsche did some clear cost cutting like the dash and the start button, but if they did that when everyone else was doing it, it would have been a decade or so ago. Reminder that people are spending real money on Carrera Ts with PDKs, because they worry about driving a manual in traffic -- this is the market and the people buying new 911s.
People spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on an older Porsche are doing so, because they have a garage(s) filled with other cars. Those six figure air cooled cars aren't being driven thousands of miles every year. In reality, they're a place to park money and eventually end up back on bring-a-trailer with 60 miles added by the seller over 2 years. The tragedy is that those cars aren't being driven -- the "connection" thesis is irrelevant. Like watches and everything else, people buy these things, because they become the thing to buy. About twenty five years or so ago, you could come across used aircooled 911s in the $3500-5000 range. Don't confuse speculation with value.
The SPOILER here is that most people buying new 911s don't really drive them. So, none of this experience or connection stuff really matters. The average 992 is driven a couple thousand miles per year, if that. I've had perfectly wonderful conversations with people who just like the feeling of having one in the garage. For some, it's accomplishment. For others, it's status. Granted, that's not all buyers and RennList definitely leans towards the enthusiast side of the spectrum, but at the end of the day, Porsche knows who they're selling to.
06-04-2024, 05:33 PM
#117
I disagree, because the 992.2 hybrid model is already priced out of the middle class. I can't see people paying more here. With the 992.2, a new 911 is no longer something that's aspirational with some saving and a few lifestyle compromises. Oh, and there are no "teens" buying these cars new without family money. I am sure that comment will trigger some little brat to tell me that he "works hard", but sorry, it is still Mommy's and Daddy's money, living or non-living.
Porsche would go bankrupt selling air cooled 911s as their only car. How do I know this? Because they nearly did so in the 90s.
There have been a of lot regulations in the past 40 years that have taken those old designs off of the road. The safety improvements driven by regulations have saved countless lives. People complain about emissions and MPG requirements, but the modern cars make the kind of power we could only dream of decades ago while also being incredibly efficient. No, I don't want to go back to points-based ignition systems, horrible electrics/relays/regulators, and single digit fuel economy. I have zero nostalgia when it comes to fighting the constant corrosion battle to keep cars of that vintage on the road.
Have you ever been in a car accident where an HVAC switch leaves an imprint on your leg? Much the plastic that has invaded automotive interiors is driven by safety regulations. Anything that protrudes or is sticking out can be a problem in a collision. Folks mock the Braun shift selector, but I am sure that it delivers a benefit during an accident as something less likely to impale you.
Porsche does precious little because "everyone else is doing it". As for digitization, they add things like rain mode, because they were tired of being sued by widows of people with more money than skill (Oh, that rain mode warning message gets logged in the blackbox of the car in the event that ignore it and bin it). Sure, Porsche did some clear cost cutting like the dash and the start button, but if they did that when everyone else was doing it, it would have been a decade or so ago. Reminder that people are spending real money on Carrera Ts with PDKs, because they worry about driving a manual in traffic -- this is the market and the people buying new 911s.
People spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on an older Porsche are doing so, because they have a garage(s) filled with other cars. Those six figure air cooled cars aren't being driven thousands of miles every year. In reality, they're a place to park money and eventually end up back on bring-a-trailer with 60 miles added by the seller over 2 years. The tragedy is that those cars aren't being driven -- the "connection" thesis is irrelevant. Like watches and everything else, people buy these things, because they become the thing to buy. About twenty five years or so ago, you could come across used aircooled 911s in the $3500-5000 range. Don't confuse speculation with value.
The SPOILER here is that most people buying new 911s don't really drive them. So, none of this experience or connection stuff really matters. The average 992 is driven a couple thousand miles per year, if that. I've had perfectly wonderful conversations with people who just like the feeling of having one in the garage. For some, it's accomplishment. For others, it's status. Granted, that's not all buyers and RennList definitely leans towards the enthusiast side of the spectrum, but at the end of the day, Porsche knows who they're selling to.
Porsche would go bankrupt selling air cooled 911s as their only car. How do I know this? Because they nearly did so in the 90s.
There have been a of lot regulations in the past 40 years that have taken those old designs off of the road. The safety improvements driven by regulations have saved countless lives. People complain about emissions and MPG requirements, but the modern cars make the kind of power we could only dream of decades ago while also being incredibly efficient. No, I don't want to go back to points-based ignition systems, horrible electrics/relays/regulators, and single digit fuel economy. I have zero nostalgia when it comes to fighting the constant corrosion battle to keep cars of that vintage on the road.
Have you ever been in a car accident where an HVAC switch leaves an imprint on your leg? Much the plastic that has invaded automotive interiors is driven by safety regulations. Anything that protrudes or is sticking out can be a problem in a collision. Folks mock the Braun shift selector, but I am sure that it delivers a benefit during an accident as something less likely to impale you.
Porsche does precious little because "everyone else is doing it". As for digitization, they add things like rain mode, because they were tired of being sued by widows of people with more money than skill (Oh, that rain mode warning message gets logged in the blackbox of the car in the event that ignore it and bin it). Sure, Porsche did some clear cost cutting like the dash and the start button, but if they did that when everyone else was doing it, it would have been a decade or so ago. Reminder that people are spending real money on Carrera Ts with PDKs, because they worry about driving a manual in traffic -- this is the market and the people buying new 911s.
People spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on an older Porsche are doing so, because they have a garage(s) filled with other cars. Those six figure air cooled cars aren't being driven thousands of miles every year. In reality, they're a place to park money and eventually end up back on bring-a-trailer with 60 miles added by the seller over 2 years. The tragedy is that those cars aren't being driven -- the "connection" thesis is irrelevant. Like watches and everything else, people buy these things, because they become the thing to buy. About twenty five years or so ago, you could come across used aircooled 911s in the $3500-5000 range. Don't confuse speculation with value.
The SPOILER here is that most people buying new 911s don't really drive them. So, none of this experience or connection stuff really matters. The average 992 is driven a couple thousand miles per year, if that. I've had perfectly wonderful conversations with people who just like the feeling of having one in the garage. For some, it's accomplishment. For others, it's status. Granted, that's not all buyers and RennList definitely leans towards the enthusiast side of the spectrum, but at the end of the day, Porsche knows who they're selling to.
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detansinn (06-04-2024)
06-04-2024, 05:41 PM
#118
I don't see any "hate" at all.
EVs are not for everyone while most enthusiasts are not allowing the anti-fossil fuel pound offs to intimidate us into silence. Ya want an EV then go get one, there are certainly enough of them out there looking for a home and I hear there are fantastic deals if you are OK with what is essentially a throw away vehicle if you are able to see them for what they are.
Very few of us are "OK" with EVs being forced on the public. The EU came out with some ridiculous mandate not to long ago that all new consumer vehicles over there had to be electric by a certain date. This was obviously an untenably stupid idea as this dictate was repealed 6 mos later.
Why does any of this need to be shoved down our throats? Let the technology evolve and develop, nothing wrong with that approach.
EVs are not for everyone while most enthusiasts are not allowing the anti-fossil fuel pound offs to intimidate us into silence. Ya want an EV then go get one, there are certainly enough of them out there looking for a home and I hear there are fantastic deals if you are OK with what is essentially a throw away vehicle if you are able to see them for what they are.
Very few of us are "OK" with EVs being forced on the public. The EU came out with some ridiculous mandate not to long ago that all new consumer vehicles over there had to be electric by a certain date. This was obviously an untenably stupid idea as this dictate was repealed 6 mos later.
Why does any of this need to be shoved down our throats? Let the technology evolve and develop, nothing wrong with that approach.
06-04-2024, 05:52 PM
#119
You misunderstand.
Its not that people hate EVs - it’s that most EV supporters want ALL cars to be EV only!
I could care less if you like Teslas and Taycans and Rivians but why are you going after low production cars like a 911 which spend majority of the time sitting in a damn garage. Same goes for Boxster / Cayman - they add zero to overall environmental pollution. Its just complete overreach by the government groups.
Its not that people hate EVs - it’s that most EV supporters want ALL cars to be EV only!
I could care less if you like Teslas and Taycans and Rivians but why are you going after low production cars like a 911 which spend majority of the time sitting in a damn garage. Same goes for Boxster / Cayman - they add zero to overall environmental pollution. Its just complete overreach by the government groups.
