Porsche got it wrong I’ll explain
06-02-2024, 06:02 AM
#46
In 2023 they had a growth of 17% on the Taycan and they sold 41k cars.
Yes first Q1 2024 the taycan was down in sales but like cayenne last year, it was in the middle of a facelist so dealers did not really have cars to sell.
2025 is a decisive year for Porsche at least for Taycan and the Macan. I think sales will increase and Macan EV wil pass the 100k cars mark and the Taycan will continue growing slowly. Time will tell. 2026 is the decicive year for the 911 - they will probably pass the 60k cars mark.
Generally most people want to get an electric car. Good or bad the goverments and the manufacturers have convinced most people. I will not get into the pros and cons - and I agree there are lots of cons - but I do not see demand of hybrids and full EVs changing. I do see though the demand of ICE only cars decreasing.
As I have mentioned various times I no more have an opinion on cars electrification. It is what it is, it is a fact, it is already here and since I like buying new cars I have somehow accepted it purchase wise and try to see the benefits.
Again if you are less than a certain age - what will you do. Driving older cars for ever and stop buying new tech cars?
Last edited by silversurfer6; 06-02-2024 at 06:04 AM.
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Jeff Whitten (06-02-2024)
06-02-2024, 06:12 AM
#47
This is the whole thing. Taycan appeared to be a winner out of the gate but really crashed and burned afterwards. We see very of few of them on the road here in South Florida. I guess I am like the vast majority who has absolutely no intentions of purchasing an EV in forseeable future.
Unless there is a crystall ball we do not know if the taycan is now going down in sales. The only real fact we have is that for 2023 sales were a massive 17% up - so we can say accurately that it is doing very well so far.
06-02-2024, 10:27 AM
#48
Rennlist Member
The connection drivers feel with an analog tach , the turning of a key, a manual transmission the sound of an engine is not related to age or nostalgia. The connection is human and connection inspires people of any age no matter how modern times have changed. .
When artists write songs most are still being written in guitars , pianos, drums that have not changed in centuries, even if iPads and computers are available that make the same sounds. No matter the genre you can go to any teen pop concert today and musicians are still playing those same instruments Mozart played.
when painters and designers work they do so with a pencil and physical paint like they did centuries ago to, not everything is done in an iPad.
if you look at driving as an art form (it is) it’s the exact same thing.
I think car manufacturers are getting it wrong by digitizing something that does not need to just because some focus group told them that’s what the new generation wants. Tesla gets away with it because it’s a new type of instrument. But to try change old instrument designs and digitize them for progress is wrong and removes the magic older people and younger people feel in a 911
When artists write songs most are still being written in guitars , pianos, drums that have not changed in centuries, even if iPads and computers are available that make the same sounds. No matter the genre you can go to any teen pop concert today and musicians are still playing those same instruments Mozart played.
when painters and designers work they do so with a pencil and physical paint like they did centuries ago to, not everything is done in an iPad.
if you look at driving as an art form (it is) it’s the exact same thing.
I think car manufacturers are getting it wrong by digitizing something that does not need to just because some focus group told them that’s what the new generation wants. Tesla gets away with it because it’s a new type of instrument. But to try change old instrument designs and digitize them for progress is wrong and removes the magic older people and younger people feel in a 911
This new one is jusrt a nail in the coffin. I bought a 991 generation because of the analog gages.
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06-02-2024, 11:10 AM
#49
Ya. Tesla should be Tesla and the Porsche 911 should be the Porsche 911. I could give a crap less about the rest of Porsche, do what you want. The 911 should be different. Not how the manufacturers do it though so a Tesla 911 994 will be out in what, 4 or 5 years?
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Porsche992 (06-02-2024)
06-02-2024, 11:24 AM
#50
06-02-2024, 11:27 AM
#51
this might be the dumbest quote I’ve read on the internet for some time. Do you have any idea how much instruments have changed in 300 years?
take a simple look at the harpsichord vs the modern piano, or what an 18th century guitar looked like. I’m so curious as to what you think a drum kit was like in Mozart’s day?
if you’re going to invoke classical music, that is a terrible analogy, as Beethoven’s music (just 50 years later) changed significantly in part due to the improvement in instruments.
i feel people just make stuff up (which they think to be true in their heads), and the internet provides a bizarre platform for simple thoughts (and thought) that would have never previously left a house or bar.
take a simple look at the harpsichord vs the modern piano, or what an 18th century guitar looked like. I’m so curious as to what you think a drum kit was like in Mozart’s day?
if you’re going to invoke classical music, that is a terrible analogy, as Beethoven’s music (just 50 years later) changed significantly in part due to the improvement in instruments.
i feel people just make stuff up (which they think to be true in their heads), and the internet provides a bizarre platform for simple thoughts (and thought) that would have never previously left a house or bar.
Last edited by Porsche992; 06-02-2024 at 11:56 AM.
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russm535il (06-04-2024)
06-02-2024, 11:29 AM
#52
I'd argue that Tesla isn't getting away with it given their plummeting sales and inventory piling up.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/actual...ng-just-teslas
https://www.thedrive.com/news/actual...ng-just-teslas
06-02-2024, 11:41 AM
#53
i think what we all need to realize is that we are a dying breed; those of us who actually enjoy driving. i remember how excited i was to turn 15 to get my drivers permit (had it on day 1) and then how excited i was to turn 16 to get my license. I worked my butt off and bought a 1988 honda civic with a 5 spd manual that i hand washed and waxed every week. i tinkered in the engine. changed the oil. changed the brakes, shocks, etc. modified it. Kids these days dont care. i was shocked at how many 16-20 year olds that dont even have a license! they dont care to drive. they uber or whatever. So porsche and other manufacturers are looking to the future which is them. They need to electrify the cars. add multiple screens. make everything digital. a manual transmission?? whats that??
The only reason i drove BMW and porsche exclusively in the last 10 years is because they offered a manual. As they slowly get rid of it then it is kind of freeing. i no longer am limited to them. i can now explore mclaren, aston martin, etc. but i know that the last nice manual car i purchase will stay in my garage forever.
The only reason i drove BMW and porsche exclusively in the last 10 years is because they offered a manual. As they slowly get rid of it then it is kind of freeing. i no longer am limited to them. i can now explore mclaren, aston martin, etc. but i know that the last nice manual car i purchase will stay in my garage forever.
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russm535il (06-04-2024)
06-02-2024, 11:59 AM
#54
Porsche knows that they can release any new model and that a bunch of doctors, lawyers and whatever will line up to buy the latest and the greatest just to show that they have the latest and greatest to their neighbors. Those customers are Porsche's bread and butter. They walk in the showroom and pick a bloated 200k base Carrera because they like the color and the shiny crest. At this point Porsche could release a lousy version and it wouldn't matter, people would still line up to buy it. Porsche has the best marketing department in the world. Most Porsche buyers are not picky Rennlisters.
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06-02-2024, 12:06 PM
#55
that is only applicable to a very tiny group of people
most people consider it a hassle and if given the choice they would rather not drive at all .
and car companies cater to the masses like any other business
if you are a restaurant owner and make a dish that only 1 % of customer order . It can be the greatest dish you make. You take it off the menu
most people consider it a hassle and if given the choice they would rather not drive at all .
and car companies cater to the masses like any other business
if you are a restaurant owner and make a dish that only 1 % of customer order . It can be the greatest dish you make. You take it off the menu
The OP here in this forum we are specifically talking about the Porsche 911. A vehicle that is overwhelmingly purchased as a 2nd or 3rd vehicle, largely with the fun of driving it being the motivating factor and not just how practical or easy it is to take the kids to school, do the shopping or drive to work.
Porsche 911 buyers are different customers to the market you describe in your post.
06-02-2024, 01:08 PM
#56
But you’re making an argument that would apply logically to buyers of a daily commuter vehicle, Hyundai hatchback etc. Most buyers of those just want the easiest less hassle way to drive it to work or the shops etc.
The OP here in this forum we are specifically talking about the Porsche 911. A vehicle that is overwhelmingly purchased as a 2nd or 3rd vehicle, largely with the fun of driving it being the motivating factor and not just how practical or easy it is to take the kids to school, do the shopping or drive to work.
Porsche 911 buyers are different customers to the market you describe in your post.
The OP here in this forum we are specifically talking about the Porsche 911. A vehicle that is overwhelmingly purchased as a 2nd or 3rd vehicle, largely with the fun of driving it being the motivating factor and not just how practical or easy it is to take the kids to school, do the shopping or drive to work.
Porsche 911 buyers are different customers to the market you describe in your post.
06-02-2024, 01:20 PM
#57
I own a 2022 Tesla Model Y Long Range, a 2023 Volvo XC60 plug in hybrid, and a 2020 911 C4S. Honestly, they all serve their purpose wonderfully.
The Tesla Y is a great car to drive, steering is tight, acceleration is sublime, tech is pretty cool, my wife drives it and loves not getting gas. I wouldn't ever say consumers don't want EV's, they are the future IMO.
My son drives the Volvo as do I occassionally (too much snow for the Porsche let's say). We use it for longer road trips where we simply don't want to wait the 15-25 min to charge the Tesla or hockey tournaments in the middle of nowhere. It's safe, quick as hell, and hardly ever needs gas. Think we've used 30 litres of gas in the last 60 days. Also love that similar to the Tesla is has one pedal driving, albeit less aggressive.
The 911 is simply a different beast altogether. Would be odd for it to go fully EV, especially with the Taycan around serving that purpose. I love the analog speedometer and clock on it, and turning the ignition, but all things change over time.
The Tesla Y is a great car to drive, steering is tight, acceleration is sublime, tech is pretty cool, my wife drives it and loves not getting gas. I wouldn't ever say consumers don't want EV's, they are the future IMO.
My son drives the Volvo as do I occassionally (too much snow for the Porsche let's say). We use it for longer road trips where we simply don't want to wait the 15-25 min to charge the Tesla or hockey tournaments in the middle of nowhere. It's safe, quick as hell, and hardly ever needs gas. Think we've used 30 litres of gas in the last 60 days. Also love that similar to the Tesla is has one pedal driving, albeit less aggressive.
The 911 is simply a different beast altogether. Would be odd for it to go fully EV, especially with the Taycan around serving that purpose. I love the analog speedometer and clock on it, and turning the ignition, but all things change over time.
06-02-2024, 01:30 PM
#58
I own a 2022 Tesla Model Y Long Range, a 2023 Volvo XC60 plug in hybrid, and a 2020 911 C4S. Honestly, they all serve their purpose wonderfully.
The Tesla Y is a great car to drive, steering is tight, acceleration is sublime, tech is pretty cool, my wife drives it and loves not getting gas. I wouldn't ever say consumers don't want EV's, they are the future IMO.
My son drives the Volvo as do I occassionally (too much snow for the Porsche let's say). We use it for longer road trips where we simply don't want to wait the 15-25 min to charge the Tesla or hockey tournaments in the middle of nowhere. It's safe, quick as hell, and hardly ever needs gas. Think we've used 30 litres of gas in the last 60 days. Also love that similar to the Tesla is has one pedal driving, albeit less aggressive.
The 911 is simply a different beast altogether. Would be odd for it to go fully EV, especially with the Taycan around serving that purpose. I love the analog speedometer and clock on it, and turning the ignition, but all things change over time.
The Tesla Y is a great car to drive, steering is tight, acceleration is sublime, tech is pretty cool, my wife drives it and loves not getting gas. I wouldn't ever say consumers don't want EV's, they are the future IMO.
My son drives the Volvo as do I occassionally (too much snow for the Porsche let's say). We use it for longer road trips where we simply don't want to wait the 15-25 min to charge the Tesla or hockey tournaments in the middle of nowhere. It's safe, quick as hell, and hardly ever needs gas. Think we've used 30 litres of gas in the last 60 days. Also love that similar to the Tesla is has one pedal driving, albeit less aggressive.
The 911 is simply a different beast altogether. Would be odd for it to go fully EV, especially with the Taycan around serving that purpose. I love the analog speedometer and clock on it, and turning the ignition, but all things change over time.
I drive for work 140 miles a day, use Rivian R1T for that. Put 24k miles in 7 months. It’s an amazing truck.
used to use $325 of gas a week in my macan, my weekly home charging is $77. Considering that it’s the least efficient of EVs.
Wife has X7 that we use for cross country trips. And it’s her daily.
7MT GTS, in town driving and weekend drives for myself.
I think until you own an EV, you don’t realize its place. Prior to owning one, I always had suspicions about that.
Last edited by GTS2022; 06-02-2024 at 02:02 PM.
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AlexCeres (06-02-2024)
06-02-2024, 02:39 PM
#59
There's no symmetry in the interior design language for me. You have a full digital instrument cluster but the sport chrono clock remains analog? My OCD couldn't live with it during daily drives. If you're gonna commit to full digitial interior, then do it ala BMW and Mercedes. I wouldn't be surprised if the 994 goes full haptic steering wheel controls and digital sport chrono ****. :/
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Drifting (06-02-2024)
06-02-2024, 02:56 PM
#60
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
But you’re making an argument that would apply logically to buyers of a daily commuter vehicle, Hyundai hatchback etc. Most buyers of those just want the easiest less hassle way to drive it to work or the shops etc.
The OP here in this forum we are specifically talking about the Porsche 911. A vehicle that is overwhelmingly purchased as a 2nd or 3rd vehicle, largely with the fun of driving it being the motivating factor and not just how practical or easy it is to take the kids to school, do the shopping or drive to work.
Porsche 911 buyers are different customers to the market you describe in your post.
The OP here in this forum we are specifically talking about the Porsche 911. A vehicle that is overwhelmingly purchased as a 2nd or 3rd vehicle, largely with the fun of driving it being the motivating factor and not just how practical or easy it is to take the kids to school, do the shopping or drive to work.
Porsche 911 buyers are different customers to the market you describe in your post.