Car Transport Ship Felicity Ace Catches Fire Mid Atlantic
03-02-2022, 04:45 PM
#496
Race Car
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Fairfax County, Virginia
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M3Inline6 (03-02-2022)
03-02-2022, 06:19 PM
#497
Gentlemen... As I said previously: Boats have any number of seacocks which are seawater inlets that feed various systems: Wash-down, cooling, fire suppression, ballasting, etc. In a major fire all the gaskets and seals in the plumbing may be burned out, or not, you don't know. You also have shaft and instrumentation penetrations, which may also be compromised, or maybe, not. For those reasons the vessel is always assumed to be flooding after a major fire until proven otherwise. In reality it usually is flooding and flooding can only occur so long before the vessel gets outside of it's enevelope. This is why salvage crews will not go on the boat at sea, seaworthiness is not assured. Changes of just a few inches in center of gravity changes the vessel stability by many tons in terms of loading and also change the righting arm curve. This is calculable in any instance of flooding at the beach but the boat is at sea and is moving, the relative surfaces are also moving, as is the platform from which you must measure if you want to make a visual estimate from an external location. This makes it somewhere in between very difficult or impossible to accurately measure vessel stability from external observation. As to it being scuttled I'm doubtful that the vessel was equipped with scuttling charges that were miraculously fire proof along with all the annicilary equipment needed to remotely engage those charges which would also have to be miraculously fireproof so that back at one or more corporate HQ's someone could push the magic button to avoid clean-up costs after a fire. I would however agree with the thought that the boat going down was a bit of good news for those who might be footing the bill for a clean up and they were probably hoping for it, flooding is expected, the question is how much flooding.
The Pictures: There are few pictures because those guys showing up to do the salvage are under NDA and this is often true for the crews on stricken vessels as well. Such a boat is considered a hazard to navigation and where possible traffic will give a wide berth and thats in a business where 1 mile is considered a close pass in the open sea. The officers of the crew would have immediately sought personal representation upon hitting the beach in addition to the legal councel they'er getting on the corporate side, both will be advising them to say nothing, post any pictures or video, via any forum. Making few or no statements is also part of the corporate PR playbook as something you didn't say cant go viral in various social media. In some major casualties it can go otherwise, you all probably remember the car carrier that rolled over a few years ago on the East Coast, that one was in a position where it was widely photographed, filmed, etc. The lack of media is common in a major casualty.
In any event a conspiricy theory isn't required to sink a vessel that burned, it happens and without scuttling charges. Nor do you need evil intent and or people at the core of a conspiricy theory to explain how a fire started on a boat. They happen. There were potential fires numbering in the thousands on board that boat without even counting the cars, something as simple as an electrical tie breaking and allowing a wire to chafe until it arcs as it moves with the roll of the boat can start a fire. We may never know why but it is entirely possible the men on that boat know exacty how the fire started or at least where it started which would be a good place to stop here: When you have this kind of thing happen you do what you have to first to save lives/property. The second thing you do is get everybody together and make sure you get your stories straight.
The Pictures: There are few pictures because those guys showing up to do the salvage are under NDA and this is often true for the crews on stricken vessels as well. Such a boat is considered a hazard to navigation and where possible traffic will give a wide berth and thats in a business where 1 mile is considered a close pass in the open sea. The officers of the crew would have immediately sought personal representation upon hitting the beach in addition to the legal councel they'er getting on the corporate side, both will be advising them to say nothing, post any pictures or video, via any forum. Making few or no statements is also part of the corporate PR playbook as something you didn't say cant go viral in various social media. In some major casualties it can go otherwise, you all probably remember the car carrier that rolled over a few years ago on the East Coast, that one was in a position where it was widely photographed, filmed, etc. The lack of media is common in a major casualty.
In any event a conspiricy theory isn't required to sink a vessel that burned, it happens and without scuttling charges. Nor do you need evil intent and or people at the core of a conspiricy theory to explain how a fire started on a boat. They happen. There were potential fires numbering in the thousands on board that boat without even counting the cars, something as simple as an electrical tie breaking and allowing a wire to chafe until it arcs as it moves with the roll of the boat can start a fire. We may never know why but it is entirely possible the men on that boat know exacty how the fire started or at least where it started which would be a good place to stop here: When you have this kind of thing happen you do what you have to first to save lives/property. The second thing you do is get everybody together and make sure you get your stories straight.
The following 5 users liked this post by krabman:
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worf928 (03-02-2022)
03-02-2022, 07:43 PM
#498
Drifting
Gentlemen... As I said previously: Boats have any number of seacocks which are seawater inlets that feed various systems: Wash-down, cooling, fire suppression, ballasting, etc. In a major fire all the gaskets and seals in the plumbing may be burned out, or not, you don't know. You also have shaft and instrumentation penetrations, which may also be compromised, or maybe, not. For those reasons the vessel is always assumed to be flooding after a major fire until proven otherwise. In reality it usually is flooding and flooding can only occur so long before the vessel gets outside of it's enevelope. This is why salvage crews will not go on the boat at sea, seaworthiness is not assured. Changes of just a few inches in center of gravity changes the vessel stability by many tons in terms of loading and also change the righting arm curve. This is calculable in any instance of flooding at the beach but the boat is at sea and is moving, the relative surfaces are also moving, as is the platform from which you must measure if you want to make a visual estimate from an external location. This makes it somewhere in between very difficult or impossible to accurately measure vessel stability from external observation. As to it being scuttled I'm doubtful that the vessel was equipped with scuttling charges that were miraculously fire proof along with all the annicilary equipment needed to remotely engage those charges which would also have to be miraculously fireproof so that back at one or more corporate HQ's someone could push the magic button to avoid clean-up costs after a fire. I would however agree with the thought that the boat going down was a bit of good news for those who might be footing the bill for a clean up and they were probably hoping for it, flooding is expected, the question is how much flooding.
The Pictures: There are few pictures because those guys showing up to do the salvage are under NDA and this is often true for the crews on stricken vessels as well. Such a boat is considered a hazard to navigation and where possible traffic will give a wide berth and thats in a business where 1 mile is considered a close pass in the open sea. The officers of the crew would have immediately sought personal representation upon hitting the beach in addition to the legal councel they'er getting on the corporate side, both will be advising them to say nothing, post any pictures or video, via any forum. Making few or no statements is also part of the corporate PR playbook as something you didn't say cant go viral in various social media. In some major casualties it can go otherwise, you all probably remember the car carrier that rolled over a few years ago on the East Coast, that one was in a position where it was widely photographed, filmed, etc. The lack of media is common in a major casualty.
In any event a conspiricy theory isn't required to sink a vessel that burned, it happens and without scuttling charges. Nor do you need evil intent and or people at the core of a conspiricy theory to explain how a fire started on a boat. They happen. There were potential fires numbering in the thousands on board that boat without even counting the cars, something as simple as an electrical tie breaking and allowing a wire to chafe until it arcs as it moves with the roll of the boat can start a fire. We may never know why but it is entirely possible the men on that boat know exacty how the fire started or at least where it started which would be a good place to stop here: When you have this kind of thing happen you do what you have to first to save lives/property. The second thing you do is get everybody together and make sure you get your stories straight.
The Pictures: There are few pictures because those guys showing up to do the salvage are under NDA and this is often true for the crews on stricken vessels as well. Such a boat is considered a hazard to navigation and where possible traffic will give a wide berth and thats in a business where 1 mile is considered a close pass in the open sea. The officers of the crew would have immediately sought personal representation upon hitting the beach in addition to the legal councel they'er getting on the corporate side, both will be advising them to say nothing, post any pictures or video, via any forum. Making few or no statements is also part of the corporate PR playbook as something you didn't say cant go viral in various social media. In some major casualties it can go otherwise, you all probably remember the car carrier that rolled over a few years ago on the East Coast, that one was in a position where it was widely photographed, filmed, etc. The lack of media is common in a major casualty.
In any event a conspiricy theory isn't required to sink a vessel that burned, it happens and without scuttling charges. Nor do you need evil intent and or people at the core of a conspiricy theory to explain how a fire started on a boat. They happen. There were potential fires numbering in the thousands on board that boat without even counting the cars, something as simple as an electrical tie breaking and allowing a wire to chafe until it arcs as it moves with the roll of the boat can start a fire. We may never know why but it is entirely possible the men on that boat know exacty how the fire started or at least where it started which would be a good place to stop here: When you have this kind of thing happen you do what you have to first to save lives/property. The second thing you do is get everybody together and make sure you get your stories straight.
03-02-2022, 10:13 PM
#499
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Agree, the main take away from it is the last sentence:
"The second thing you do is get everybody together and make sure you get your stories straight". Do remember the six phases of ANY project
1. Enthusiasm
2. Disillusionment
3. Panic
4. Search for the guilty
5. Punishment of the innocent
6. Praise and glory for the non participants.
We are clearly now in stage 5 or 6 at corporate.
siberian
"The second thing you do is get everybody together and make sure you get your stories straight". Do remember the six phases of ANY project
1. Enthusiasm
2. Disillusionment
3. Panic
4. Search for the guilty
5. Punishment of the innocent
6. Praise and glory for the non participants.
We are clearly now in stage 5 or 6 at corporate.
siberian
Last edited by siberian; 03-03-2022 at 01:15 AM.
03-03-2022, 11:23 AM
#500
Rennlist Member
We were supposed to get our car in Stuttgart in September but it wasn't ready because of a shortage of TPMS sensors.
It ended up coming over in October on the Siem Cicero.
But who knows what might have been?
It ended up coming over in October on the Siem Cicero.
But who knows what might have been?
03-03-2022, 12:22 PM
#501
Gentlemen... As I said previously: Boats have any number of seacocks which are seawater inlets that feed various systems: Wash-down, cooling, fire suppression, ballasting, etc. In a major fire all the gaskets and seals in the plumbing may be burned out, or not, you don't know. You also have shaft and instrumentation penetrations, which may also be compromised, or maybe, not. For those reasons the vessel is always assumed to be flooding after a major fire until proven otherwise. In reality it usually is flooding and flooding can only occur so long before the vessel gets outside of it's enevelope. This is why salvage crews will not go on the boat at sea, seaworthiness is not assured. Changes of just a few inches in center of gravity changes the vessel stability by many tons in terms of loading and also change the righting arm curve. This is calculable in any instance of flooding at the beach but the boat is at sea and is moving, the relative surfaces are also moving, as is the platform from which you must measure if you want to make a visual estimate from an external location. This makes it somewhere in between very difficult or impossible to accurately measure vessel stability from external observation. As to it being scuttled I'm doubtful that the vessel was equipped with scuttling charges that were miraculously fire proof along with all the annicilary equipment needed to remotely engage those charges which would also have to be miraculously fireproof so that back at one or more corporate HQ's someone could push the magic button to avoid clean-up costs after a fire. I would however agree with the thought that the boat going down was a bit of good news for those who might be footing the bill for a clean up and they were probably hoping for it, flooding is expected, the question is how much flooding.
The Pictures: There are few pictures because those guys showing up to do the salvage are under NDA and this is often true for the crews on stricken vessels as well. Such a boat is considered a hazard to navigation and where possible traffic will give a wide berth and thats in a business where 1 mile is considered a close pass in the open sea. The officers of the crew would have immediately sought personal representation upon hitting the beach in addition to the legal councel they'er getting on the corporate side, both will be advising them to say nothing, post any pictures or video, via any forum. Making few or no statements is also part of the corporate PR playbook as something you didn't say cant go viral in various social media. In some major casualties it can go otherwise, you all probably remember the car carrier that rolled over a few years ago on the East Coast, that one was in a position where it was widely photographed, filmed, etc. The lack of media is common in a major casualty.
In any event a conspiricy theory isn't required to sink a vessel that burned, it happens and without scuttling charges. Nor do you need evil intent and or people at the core of a conspiricy theory to explain how a fire started on a boat. They happen. There were potential fires numbering in the thousands on board that boat without even counting the cars, something as simple as an electrical tie breaking and allowing a wire to chafe until it arcs as it moves with the roll of the boat can start a fire. We may never know why but it is entirely possible the men on that boat know exacty how the fire started or at least where it started which would be a good place to stop here: When you have this kind of thing happen you do what you have to first to save lives/property. The second thing you do is get everybody together and make sure you get your stories straight.
The Pictures: There are few pictures because those guys showing up to do the salvage are under NDA and this is often true for the crews on stricken vessels as well. Such a boat is considered a hazard to navigation and where possible traffic will give a wide berth and thats in a business where 1 mile is considered a close pass in the open sea. The officers of the crew would have immediately sought personal representation upon hitting the beach in addition to the legal councel they'er getting on the corporate side, both will be advising them to say nothing, post any pictures or video, via any forum. Making few or no statements is also part of the corporate PR playbook as something you didn't say cant go viral in various social media. In some major casualties it can go otherwise, you all probably remember the car carrier that rolled over a few years ago on the East Coast, that one was in a position where it was widely photographed, filmed, etc. The lack of media is common in a major casualty.
In any event a conspiricy theory isn't required to sink a vessel that burned, it happens and without scuttling charges. Nor do you need evil intent and or people at the core of a conspiricy theory to explain how a fire started on a boat. They happen. There were potential fires numbering in the thousands on board that boat without even counting the cars, something as simple as an electrical tie breaking and allowing a wire to chafe until it arcs as it moves with the roll of the boat can start a fire. We may never know why but it is entirely possible the men on that boat know exacty how the fire started or at least where it started which would be a good place to stop here: When you have this kind of thing happen you do what you have to first to save lives/property. The second thing you do is get everybody together and make sure you get your stories straight.
03-03-2022, 12:32 PM
#502
That said, I wonder if there were cameras down in the cargo area that could have caught the early signs of a fire? I would think, given the large value of the cargo being transported, the shipping/insurance company would have insisted that cameras be placed to monitor the cargo? If that were the case, then long before the ship went down, the Captain, or somebody who boarded the ship, could have downloaded the video?
In this day in age of wireless and cheap video cameras - everywhere - makes good sense that they had cameras to monitor things. I have 8 cameras positioned all over my property…property worth a tiny fraction of what was on the FA….and it gives me, but mainly my wife peace of mind when not at home. Oh, and enjoy the videos of dear, fox and other wildlife who stop by at 3AM to munch on my wife’s flowers. Good entertainment.
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 03-03-2022 at 12:36 PM.
03-03-2022, 12:40 PM
#503
If it started at night, or started because of some carelessness from a crew member, may never know the exact origin/cause?
That said, I wonder if there were cameras down in the cargo area that could have caught the early signs of a fire? I would think, given the large value of the cargo being transported, the shipping/insurance company would have insisted that cameras be placed to monitor the cargo? If that were the case, then long before the ship went down, the Captain, or somebody who boarded the ship, could have downloaded the video?
In this day in age of wireless and cheap video cameras - everywhere - makes good sense that they had cameras to monitor things. I have 8 cameras positioned all over my property…property worth a tiny fraction of what was on the FA….and it gives me, but mainly my wife peace of mind when not at home. Oh, and enjoy the videos of dear, fox and other wildlife who stop by at 3AM to munch on my wife’s flowers. Good entertainment.
That said, I wonder if there were cameras down in the cargo area that could have caught the early signs of a fire? I would think, given the large value of the cargo being transported, the shipping/insurance company would have insisted that cameras be placed to monitor the cargo? If that were the case, then long before the ship went down, the Captain, or somebody who boarded the ship, could have downloaded the video?
In this day in age of wireless and cheap video cameras - everywhere - makes good sense that they had cameras to monitor things. I have 8 cameras positioned all over my property…property worth a tiny fraction of what was on the FA….and it gives me, but mainly my wife peace of mind when not at home. Oh, and enjoy the videos of dear, fox and other wildlife who stop by at 3AM to munch on my wife’s flowers. Good entertainment.
Last edited by icanthelpit; 03-03-2022 at 12:49 PM.
03-03-2022, 12:41 PM
#504
Is someone assigned to walk through the cargo area 24/7?
Cameras are the way to go…and would be shocked if they weren’t installed. It costs nothing, and video doesn’t lie if it were determined that the fire was started by the carelessness of a crew member? People lie/omit information all the time…cameras, if properly positioned, don’t.
Cameras are the way to go…and would be shocked if they weren’t installed. It costs nothing, and video doesn’t lie if it were determined that the fire was started by the carelessness of a crew member? People lie/omit information all the time…cameras, if properly positioned, don’t.
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 03-03-2022 at 01:24 PM.
03-03-2022, 02:03 PM
#505
Is someone assigned to walk through the cargo area 24/7?
Cameras are the way to go…and would be shocked if they weren’t installed. It costs nothing, and video doesn’t lie if it were determined that the fire was started by the carelessness of a crew member? People lie/omit information all the time…cameras, if properly positioned, don’t.
Cameras are the way to go…and would be shocked if they weren’t installed. It costs nothing, and video doesn’t lie if it were determined that the fire was started by the carelessness of a crew member? People lie/omit information all the time…cameras, if properly positioned, don’t.
03-03-2022, 02:12 PM
#506
But to an earlier point that someone made (not me): people can be bribed, or lie to protect their own ***…a robust video system is a better way to go, IMO.
03-03-2022, 02:15 PM
#507
03-03-2022, 02:21 PM
#509
03-03-2022, 02:23 PM
#510
Rennlist Member
According to the previous news articles posted early in the thread the crew stated that by the time they were alerted to the fire it was too late to take any meaningful action. Maybe they can narrow down the location and compare it to the load manifest to arrive at some conclusions.