M Engineering

I have yet to see an engine or transmission mechanical failure on the 992 platform using our product. We keep all OEM engine safeties in place so things like fuel and knock monitoring are all present. Our powerful software includes datalogging and abilities to upload updated tunes, so if the cars need some tweaking we are here for you.

I can't speak for other tuning platforms out there as they are lacking in software capabilities and customer support fronts so it seems.

-Charles@M

CodyBigdog

Charles, thank you very much, and excellent to hear of no failures and you keep all the existing safety checks in with the tune.

Tupper

Listen, I have to just say that you have to come to peace with losing your drivetrain warranty once you tune. Period. Get over it.

Even with a safe tune, extremely low chance of issues. You have to be ready to be told that the dealer won’t cover the failure. If you can’t handle that, don’t tune your car. Period. It’s that simple. I don’t see the point in continuing to debate this issue as if there is a chance that you can sidestep the issue, or have your cake and eat it too.

I made my peace. I trust that my car will be fine. But if the engine or transmission blow up, I will simply say “well, it was fun while it lasted!” and walk off into the sunset.

If you are not prepared to do that, then don’t tune it. IMHO

CodyBigdog

See my post #416. But even if not tuned, and doing something that Porsche deems to be “abusive” or questionable, e.g., tracking, Porsche can always find ways to deny warranty coverage. Apparently (?) there are examples of that from Rennlist folks complaining about “saggy seat bottoms” on their new ride, or battery warranty coverage, if you, apparently, don’t meet their minimum driving requirements.

Just a quick comment - totally agree accept for one thing. If that were to happen to my car, no way I walk away and just write it off. That would be the perfect excuse, for me, to make that my “track only” car.

AlterZgo

Porsche is under no obligation to prove anything. If your motor blows up and you have this mythical GTS tune, they can simply deny your warranty claim because you are running a modification that causes the car to function outside of it's intended design parameters (i.e. increased boost pressure over a stock Carrera S). They don't have to go to court at all to deny your claim. It will be up to you to hire attys to initiate litigation against Porsche. Even then, they don't have to prove that the tune blew up the motor. They can just demonstrate (easily through logs stored in the ECU and a checksum test) that shows the car exceeded it's basic design parameters (for a Carrera S) and has a different that stock ECU tune wiht recorded boost pressures in excess of stock parameters. Also, good luck finding an atty to take your case as there's not much money to be made on contingency and you'd have to pay them hourly to handle it.

But really, we are both pissing in the wind... because the chances of your motor blowing up if you run a properly designed tune that maintains all of the OEM safety features, is vritually zero percent. I just think it's important to correct some things that other people reading this thread may have a misconception about, i.e. that Porsche would somehow be more lenient for warranty work if you have a modestly increased boost pressure tune or that it is Porsche's responsibility to prove to you that your GTS like tune somehow contributed to blowing up your engine (again on the infinitessimally small chance it does blow up).

You also keep talking about an identical to GTS tune. You have to understand that no tuner will attempt to copy Porsche's exact GTS tune due to copyright violation issues and it also likely violates the DMCA. What they would do is log what a GTS does in terms of boost pressure, timing, A/F ratios and all the various other factors and develop a GTS like tune that provides similar to GTS performance... but it will not be an identical GTS tune.

22992

burden of proof in arbitration and court is on porsche period. Yes they can do what whatever they want and initially decide to cover or not cover...I never said any tune will have any greater chance of blowing up a motor, yes the tune is mythical. possibly legendary. People will do anything for money. Funny how one little statement that is wildly misinterpreted and poorly understood can cause such a cluster..moving on now.

Kurac

How so?
Im well aware of the .1 GT3 fiasco.
Are you saying the extended warranty is completely different than the new car warranty? So a new GT3 failing a motor during a track event that is completely stock won’t be covered? I find that hard to believe.

turbonator

In Audis there is a "flash counter" that goes up each time the ECU is updated so the company can detect if any unauthorized updates have occurred. I would be surprised if Porsche software doesn't track this also.

M Engineering

Porsche uses something similar to the VW/Audi TD1 flag error. You do not have to worry about the flash counter with M-Tuner

-Charles@M

Tobeit

Not to be skeptical, but I assume when the going gets tough Porsche can dig deep and find out if you tuned the car, even when flashing back or setting the flag. Lots of sensor values being stored that are not normal for an untuned car and I am highly skeptical you can eliminate any footprint. I am just talking from personal experience where the tuner swore it can't be detected....but it was. I am all for tuning but just would caution believing its all undetectable and will not affect your warranty.

22CarreraS

My Porsche dealer (1 of 24 Premier dealerships) sells tunes in the service department. My sales guy had cat delete pipes in his office he was trying to sell me. They have no issues with tuned cars in Houston, and I went with M-Engineering.

ipse dixit

Love this thread.

This thread is Exhibit A that proves the principle that "on the Internet all anecdotal evidence becomes the general rule."

CodyBigdog

Actually, that’s good to hear.

CodyBigdog

From the 2020 Porsche warranty (see source/link in my post #416):

”Components and/or parts that fail during racing or driving events (including Porsche sponsored events) may not be covered by the new car Limited Warranty.”Take note of the phrase “may not be covered.” That doesn’t sound the same as “will not be covered” for track driving. Porsche North America spokesman Frank Weismann clarified the policy for Hagerty.

“In the event of a warranty claim, the Porsche factory trained service technician must diagnose the failure,” Weismann says. “If through this inspection process it is determined that the failure is due to the workmanship/material of the part, then it would be covered. If it is determined that the component failed due to the track event in which the part was pushed beyond its intended use, then no, this would not be covered. An example of this would be a missed shift causing an over-rev event which results in engine damage.”

Before taking your new Porsche on a track, you might want to talk to a Porsche expert about those “intended use” limits.”

Then when I posed the same question to buddy who tracks every week, weather permitting (so I trust his word), he said this…which jives with what Porsche’s Frank Weismann said in the Hagerrty interview:

”I know of one guy who had a GT3 RS whose engine failed on the track because of a known head bolt issue with the engine. Porsche replaced the engine under warranty. I know of other cars that developed transmission problems but that was not covered because it's considered normal wear and tear. So, it depends..”

peterdouglas

presumably your “Premier” dealer is not waiving any right to claim that warranty terms have been violated?
is that correct? and, if so, what does it matter that they “have no issues” with tuned cars, particularly since the dealer can easily prove the tuning modification if they applied the tuning?