992 Carrera T Club
#6496
Rennlist Member
I know RAS is discussed ad nauseam, but reading the back and forth on RAS is really unsettling. I've never owned a 911 before, my only RWD car was a behemoth 2005 GTO, and it's been a minute since I've even had something as small as a sedan. My only real experience with a 911 is from PCLA. I have no issues with the added weight, complexity, not being a "purist 911", but I'd really like to avoid "feeling like I'm losing the back end". I really only expect to do 2-4 track days a year, I'm very much a novice, and I suspect for the first year or two I'll just spend my money going to the Porsche Track Experience.
I have RAS checked right now, and have about 10 days until lock. Any additional thoughts?
I have RAS checked right now, and have about 10 days until lock. Any additional thoughts?
#6497
Given your particular position, if you're the kind of guy who subscribes to the philosophy that starting anything new with the best equipment is the way to go, get RAS. Conversely, if your'e the kind of guy who sees value in getting the most basic equipment to learn with and want to do the hard work early on with the idea that perhaps that will help you master your new undertaking, skip RAS.
Also nice to see another Macan Turbo PP owner!
#6499
Three Wheelin'
Does anyone know if the $0 Standard Checkered Sport Tex seats are heated?
Included in Leather:
Standard Interior with Checkered Sport-Tex Seat Centers
$0Included in Leather:
- Seat bolsters (front)
- Seat headrests with embroidered "911" logo in Black
- Steering wheel rim
- Door grab handles
- Door panel armrests
- Center console storage compartment lid
- Gear lever and gear lever boot (manual transmission only)
#6500
Rennlist Member
#6501
Mi initial decision was to pass. I simply want less nannies, not more. Simplicity is why I'm drawn to the T.
Then I got distracted by the "it's in all the GT cars" argument and the various love letters by journalists and reviewers.
Now I'm definitely passing mostly because of this observation: If you pay attention, most of those in the pro camp talk about assistance at low speeds and how it feels smaller in corners while most of those in the con camp, if not all, speak like experienced drivers and express eloquently the twitchiness at speed, the inability to read/feel the car when turning at speed, how it feels less like a rear engine car and more like a mid engine car, how it feels unnatural in high speed cornering, etc. The voice of the latter group is the one I trust and the one I'm choosing to listen to given I haven't driven either.
Then I got distracted by the "it's in all the GT cars" argument and the various love letters by journalists and reviewers.
Now I'm definitely passing mostly because of this observation: If you pay attention, most of those in the pro camp talk about assistance at low speeds and how it feels smaller in corners while most of those in the con camp, if not all, speak like experienced drivers and express eloquently the twitchiness at speed, the inability to read/feel the car when turning at speed, how it feels less like a rear engine car and more like a mid engine car, how it feels unnatural in high speed cornering, etc. The voice of the latter group is the one I trust and the one I'm choosing to listen to given I haven't driven either.
I look forward to providing some real world feedback when I get mine... This, again, is not something that I have a TON of track or road time with so I took a leap of faith based on those limited experiences and am hoping for the best.
Last edited by toph4242; 03-02-2023 at 02:36 PM.
The following 7 users liked this post by toph4242:
6sigma (03-02-2023),
992carrerat (03-02-2023),
Edward911 (03-02-2023),
Macboy (03-02-2023),
Spartakos (03-02-2023),
and 2 others liked this post.
#6502
Three Wheelin'
I know RAS is discussed ad nauseam, but reading the back and forth on RAS is really unsettling. I've never owned a 911 before, my only RWD car was a behemoth 2005 GTO, and it's been a minute since I've even had something as small as a sedan. My only real experience with a 911 is from PCLA. I have no issues with the added weight, complexity, not being a "purist 911", but I'd really like to avoid "feeling like I'm losing the back end". I really only expect to do 2-4 track days a year, I'm very much a novice, and I suspect for the first year or two I'll just spend my money going to the Porsche Track Experience.
I have RAS checked right now, and have about 10 days until lock. Any additional thoughts?
I have RAS checked right now, and have about 10 days until lock. Any additional thoughts?
Scared the crap out of me. I'm not a track guy at all, so maybe it works better there but in the wild on a long sweeping left that I knew very well, and that my non-RAS equipped 991.2T could easily take at speed, I lost all confidence in my current 992.
#6503
I'm just sharing my real world experience on a forum, and I'm not trying to sway anybody one way or another but that line "feeling like I'm losing the back end" is exactly what it felt like to me.
Scared the crap out of me. I'm not a track guy at all, so maybe it works better there but in the wild on a long sweeping left that I knew very well, and that my non-RAS equipped 991.2T could easily take at speed, I lost all confidence in my current 992.
Scared the crap out of me. I'm not a track guy at all, so maybe it works better there but in the wild on a long sweeping left that I knew very well, and that my non-RAS equipped 991.2T could easily take at speed, I lost all confidence in my current 992.
The Answer to all of this is PLEASE go find a dealer with both cars, or sign up for a 1-hour experience center test with each if you live close to LA or atlanta before ordering your car... The expense of doing this far outweighs the expense of ordering a 6-figure car not to your liking!!!
The following 5 users liked this post by toph4242:
6sigma (03-02-2023),
Jarm (03-02-2023),
Macboy (03-02-2023),
tourenwagen (03-02-2023),
Wilder (03-02-2023)
#6504
I'm just sharing my real world experience on a forum, and I'm not trying to sway anybody one way or another but that line "feeling like I'm losing the back end" is exactly what it felt like to me.
Scared the crap out of me. I'm not a track guy at all, so maybe it works better there but in the wild on a long sweeping left that I knew very well, and that my non-RAS equipped 991.2T could easily take at speed, I lost all confidence in my current 992.
Scared the crap out of me. I'm not a track guy at all, so maybe it works better there but in the wild on a long sweeping left that I knew very well, and that my non-RAS equipped 991.2T could easily take at speed, I lost all confidence in my current 992.
The following users liked this post:
tourenwagen (03-02-2023)
#6505
Three Wheelin'
Its so interesting the different experiences with this Tech, because my initial reaction to what was being described as "losing the back end" is that the RAS would very much help with this feeling, because it creates that more mid engine weight distribution feel.. i think 911 owners are very familiar with the tail happy feeling, so @tourenwagen you and I both know how to easily correct the car when it starts to do that and we have confidence in how it will react in a Non RAS car... for someone that isn't familiar with the 911 layout, that correction might not come natural to them, so the RAS will keep them on a line and in "control" possibly better than without it... I don't know if im making sense, but I think if we know how a 911 traditionally reacts, RAS is unfamiliar. For someone looking to tighten up the car and prevent too much oversteer, RAS might be the right choice...
The Answer to all of this is PLEASE go find a dealer with both cars, or sign up for a 1-hour experience center test with each if you live close to LA or atlanta before ordering your car... The expense of doing this far outweighs the expense of ordering a 6-figure car not to your liking!!!
The Answer to all of this is PLEASE go find a dealer with both cars, or sign up for a 1-hour experience center test with each if you live close to LA or atlanta before ordering your car... The expense of doing this far outweighs the expense of ordering a 6-figure car not to your liking!!!
The following users liked this post:
toph4242 (03-02-2023)
#6506
Three Wheelin'
#6507
Sharing an update hoping to help someone like me. Do NOT wait for your stupid SA to send the forms. Email PEC and they will settle everything with you directly. I think the form might have to be sent before the car enters production - I almost missed it
#6508
Rennlist Member
I know I'm no professional journalist lol... but I will advocate for one slight alteration to this statement: Instead of calling it a twitchiness, I would describe it as "harder to get the back end to swing out because it has more grip and on-rails feel to it... and when you push it harder and are able to get it to break loose, it tries to keep that rigidity so it feels like a mid engine slide vs rear engine slide". The only reason I point this out is because I think in high speed situations most 911 drivers or people familiar with the car know that they can very easily whip the tail out and slide it... The RAS keeps is more on a line through a corner and slides become slightly more stiff rather than light and easily corrected, if that makes sense. The pro drivers that I sat passenger with at Barber Motorsport track in a 911 with RAS made the car do unimaginably fast lap times and their cornering drifts were very very controlled... but the car did not have that same light and playful tail spin out that most would be used to... It was a very fast/controlled and lap time effective slide that allowed them to get back into the power quicker out of the corner vs. correcting their oversteer out of a corner.
I look forward to providing some real world feedback when I get mine... This, again, is not something that I have a TON of track or road time with so I took a leap of faith based on those limited experiences and am hoping for the best.
I look forward to providing some real world feedback when I get mine... This, again, is not something that I have a TON of track or road time with so I took a leap of faith based on those limited experiences and am hoping for the best.
There is no question that RAS makes the car faster. It's simple physics and I suppose the reason Porsche made it standard in all GT cars. However, if you head over to the 997 GT3 forum, tech like RAS is one of the reasons people sold their 991 and 992 GT cars for 996 and 997 GT cars. Like me, they're not looking to be the fastest at this point but to have the most visceral experience and to have the most fun. My GT3 cost me as much as a new one and I chose it over a 992 because I want a raw and analog experience and to feel like I'm driving the car as opposed to feeling like the car is driving me, if that makes sense. It's the same reason I'm not checking RAS on the T.
Its so interesting the different experiences with this Tech, because my initial reaction to what was being described as "losing the back end" is that the RAS would very much help with this feeling, because it creates that more mid engine weight distribution feel.. i think 911 owners are very familiar with the tail happy feeling, so @tourenwagen you and I both know how to easily correct the car when it starts to do that and we have confidence in how it will react in a Non RAS car... for someone that isn't familiar with the 911 layout, that correction might not come natural to them, so the RAS will keep them on a line and in "control" possibly better than without it... I don't know if im making sense, but I think if we know how a 911 traditionally reacts, RAS is unfamiliar. For someone looking to tighten up the car and prevent too much oversteer, RAS might be the right choice...
The Answer to all of this is PLEASE go find a dealer with both cars, or sign up for a 1-hour experience center test with each if you live close to LA or atlanta before ordering your car... The expense of doing this far outweighs the expense of ordering a 6-figure car not to your liking!!!
The Answer to all of this is PLEASE go find a dealer with both cars, or sign up for a 1-hour experience center test with each if you live close to LA or atlanta before ordering your car... The expense of doing this far outweighs the expense of ordering a 6-figure car not to your liking!!!
Ultimately, there's not right or wrong. There's just preference and priorities. I can totally see why people would want RAS. It's why I added it briefly to my build.
Last edited by Wilder; 03-02-2023 at 03:12 PM.
#6509
I know I'm no professional journalist lol... but I will advocate for one slight alteration to this statement: Instead of calling it a twitchiness, I would describe it as "harder to get the back end to swing out because it has more grip and on-rails feel to it... and when you push it harder and are able to get it to break loose, it tries to keep that rigidity so it feels like a mid engine slide vs rear engine slide". The only reason I point this out is because I think in high speed situations most 911 drivers or people familiar with the car know that they can very easily whip the tail out and slide it... The RAS keeps is more on a line through a corner and slides become slightly more stiff rather than light and easily corrected, if that makes sense. The pro drivers that I sat passenger with at Barber Motorsport track in a 911 with RAS made the car do unimaginably fast lap times and their cornering drifts were very very controlled... but the car did not have that same light and playful tail spin out that most would be used to... It was a very fast/controlled and lap time effective slide that allowed them to get back into the power quicker out of the corner vs. correcting their oversteer out of a corner.
I look forward to providing some real world feedback when I get mine... This, again, is not something that I have a TON of track or road time with so I took a leap of faith based on those limited experiences and am hoping for the best.
I look forward to providing some real world feedback when I get mine... This, again, is not something that I have a TON of track or road time with so I took a leap of faith based on those limited experiences and am hoping for the best.
I will say that the way the 992 with RAS flowed into curves at speed felt awesome. It has a delicate sort of balance to it, whereas my non RAS car would instead saw through the corners (albeit in a 100% honest and predictable way). I dunno, maybe its just me, but that sawing and correction out the other end is just part of the experience, and the feedback the car gives you enables those corrections very easily. Less correction was necessary on the RAS car, but it also felt a bit more disconnected and toy like as a result. I can definitely see achieving higher speeds with RAS, but there's just that little bit of driver-car connection thats lost in the process, which is why I opted against it. Also, while driving on the freeway, I can confirm the sensation MacBoy/Tourenwagen described where the steering feels almost too sensitive in a straight line, but take that with a grain of salt since I drive a 991.1 with a legendarily numb steering.
Sorry to hear you didn't love it, but this explanation lines up 100% with what I feel on my current 992 with RAS, and what I said in this thread a couple months back. I hated the synthetic RAS feel and it made me feel like I was losing the car in a corner. Very unpleasant and made sure not to spec RAS on my T build.
I highly recommend that anyone on the fence go drive the car with RAS before your lock date. If you're unable to, and have only driven 911s without RAS before, leave it off your build. In other words, don't just tick the box because you're happy to spend the money. It makes a MASSIVE difference to the character of the car and you need to be sure you want it before you spec it. I don't understand the folks who claim that it is a subtle thing. It certainly wasn't for me. Maybe I could learn to love it, but I already love the non RAS car.
Perhaps the tl;dr of all of this is that I'm getting old and insufficiently adventurous...lol. Or maybe its the fact that I live in California, and a nearly 10% tax rate discourages experimentation.
Last edited by time_sink; 03-02-2023 at 03:23 PM.
The following 3 users liked this post by time_sink:
#6510
I highly recommend that anyone on the fence go drive the car with RAS before your lock date. If you're unable to, and have only driven 911s without RAS before, leave it off your build. In other words, don't just tick the box because you're happy to spend the money. It makes a MASSIVE difference to the character of the car and you need to be sure you want it before you spec it. I don't understand the folks who claim that it is a subtle thing. It certainly wasn't for me. Maybe I could learn to love it, but I already love the non RAS car.
Perhaps the tl;dr of all of this is that I'm getting old and insufficiently adventurous...lol. Or maybe its the fact that I live in California, and a nearly 10% tax rate discourages experimentation.
Perhaps the tl;dr of all of this is that I'm getting old and insufficiently adventurous...lol. Or maybe its the fact that I live in California, and a nearly 10% tax rate discourages experimentation.
The following users liked this post:
time_sink (03-02-2023)