BHSAAA

I feel your pain. I too have bought a lot of P cars and F cars over the years. F cars just frankly wore me out. I made it up the pecking order to be able to buy the ‘good’ cars at MSRP, sell back to dealer, repeat…but even then, the amount of butt kissing and groveling required was just to much to stomach. P cars were easier until the last few years, from turbos to GT3’s never much of a problem and never over sticker, and while I appreciate the few dealers holding to MSRP, how can they continue to ignore their best customers then immediately flip them? And let’s be honest, there is no order associated with ‘on the list’ at the vast majority of dealers, that list moves around constantly at both MSR and ADM dealers. I do think Porsche should hold some allocations for existing customers, distributed by lottery controlled by the factory, delivered and credited still through the dealer network - basically a modified Tesla arrangement. It’s a premium brand and they need to be careful not to hurt it long-term. ( and I did give in and pay an ADM for my T allocation)

Zetta

With higher interest rates, the absurd ADM sales strategy should soon change.

minn19

It won’t when you see threads like this where more
people want allocations/cars than are available.

TomTarzian

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the T comes standard with SPASM, which is 20mm lower than a non PASM 992, if there was one, which I think there isn't since the base Carrera comes standard with PASM (~ -10mm). So your Cayman S and 992 T have been lowered similar amounts. Which is not to say they would have the same scraping issues. I had a 991.2 base 911 Carrera with PASM (~ -10mm) which had minimal scraping issues. I also had a 718 GT4 (~ -30mm) with minimal scraping issues...it didn't seem a whole lot worse than the 991.2. YMMV!

God bless you,
TT

Pivot

On the positive side, your queues seem to be shorter than in the UK, which indicates that US is getting more allocations per enthusiast (if such measure exist). In UK we ‘like queuing’ and we follow the process, with no ADM.

I placed an order for 992 C2S exactly 60 weeks ago and when I called Porsche Cars UK they told me to expect it 4Q2023 (that is 2-years waiting for a car!?)

i have a second order for Carrera T which was placed when 992 T was officially announced. I am told it should arrive 2Q2023, as new models have more allocations.

Finally I have an order for Targa 4S, which I am told I should have only in 2024… another 2-year queue.

I think I would rather pay modest ADM 🤦‍♂️

Corkdsp

My 2 local Porsche dealers one charges ADM on everything they can... other dealer I currently use (existing customers) only charges ADM on GT cars and was informed they are going to now charge an ADM on T orders due to short supply and long list. Pretty frustrated about the ADM. I have an allocation for T... May Production June/July Delivery 2023. I would wait for an S or GTS at MSRP but that could be another year+ wait and I have already been on that list for 6 months already.

Really frustrated about the ADM on the T!!!!

Zetta

It's really crazy, in Austria we still get a significant discount when ordering and in the US you pay ADM. So I guess it's not the production but rather the limited transportation across the ocean. Because otherwise it would be really illogical.

TomTarzian

I wonder how many sales Porsche is losing because people are turned off by the behavior of some US dealers? Perhaps Porsche doesn't care because they can currently sell everything they can make. But some day this could come back to bite them.

God bless you,
TT

adm63

I saw this post in the GT3 section, it has me wondering if there will be MY24 Ts produced. I was thinking how many people would probably be relieved if it turns out 992.2 is not coming until MY25.

I wonder what you consider a modest ADM, since my situation with my current allocation is basically that. I only decided to buy a new 911 when they announced the T and stumbled into the opportunity to pay ~12% over sticker price to effectively jump the line. Does not feel great if I think about it but otherwise no guarantee of getting a car, and back to the used market I go.

AdamIsAdam

The T comes with PASM, a 10mm drop. I'm not sure why it's not SPASM -20mm, but it's not. Unless one cannot cross-model compare 718 to 992, like they are on a different scale, not sure about that.
My CGTS4.0 has SPASM -20mm and it's not too low. I personally would not need FAL to get over my huge neighborhood speed bumps.

It's worth noting that the 911 has longer overhangs than the Cayman. It looks like the bulk of the added length of the 911 is behind the rear wheels, which would make sense given that the engine is hanging out back there.

Wheelbase:
718: 97.4"
911: 96.5"

Overall length:
718: 173.4"
911: 177.9"

Width:
718: 70.9"
911 72.9

Height:
718: 50.2"
911: 51.1"

TomTarzian

Adam, this is a little confusing but the T comes with SPASM (PASM Sport), which is a 10mm drop from the base Carrera, which comes with PASM, which is a 10mm drop from a 992 without PASM, which is not available in the US. So if you could buy a Carrera without PASM in the US, the T would be a 20mm drop from that.

God bless you,
TT

AdamIsAdam

That makes perfect sense! I was wondering why it was only a 10mm drop. This is from the build sheet specs:

Performance
• Sport Chrono Package
• PASM Sport Suspension (Lowered 10 mm)
• Tire temperature display

TomTarzian

Yes! It might be best to think of how much of a drop is it from the level of PASM. The T and the 718 GTS are both ~10mm drop from the level of PASM. The 718 GT4 is a drop of ~20mm from the level of PASM.

God bless you,
TT

SF_

Not apples to apples, but I had a 987.1 Cayman S with the lowered sport suspension and rarely scraped, now I have a 991.2 T and scrape often. So if you scrape with your 718, you're likely gonna scrape at least as much with the 992 - I think the additional protrusion of the sport lip on the 911s accounts for a good part of that. I'd still skip FAL, as the part is cheap and easily replaced.

gtfour

My SA guided me to the same recommendations, also added PCATL delivery. Thank you!