911ST
#1891
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Great. Last time I did a private day, I think there were only 12 cars. It was open session with open passing. Most of the cars were race cars.
#1892
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Wilder (08-06-2023)
#1893
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Haha it's your lucky day! Your chances of getting one just improved by 1.
I have informed Porsche I am not taking mine. Not buying a car that I have no use for. The appreciation potential has no influence whatsoever. If I want to buy something that will appreciate, I'd rather buy up paintings, they don't need maintenance or servicing.
Can't even think of one single scenario where I will take a S/T out instead of my other Porsches. I want driving enjoyment I take out the GT4RS. I want to roll my own gears I take out the turbo 3.6, or even the 968.
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#1894
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Swear to god I have seen this frenzy before.........right! The 911R........
But the 911R at least served a purpose, being a beta car to test stuff. And much more limited in number.
The S/T is simply just a parts bin special marketing exercise, Porsche even baked in the potential ADM into the car. Quick and easy way for them to book 600+mil in revenue.
There is really nothing bespoke in the S/T. The carbon hood is from the Dakar, the carbon roof is part of the lightweight package for the turbo S already. Maybe the carbon rear deck but the Dakar also got a bespoke carbon rear deck wing assembly. The one big bespoke item is the carbon doors, but those are easy to do and they been doing that for their race cars for a long time.
The single mass flywheel likely shares part number with the one from 911R, lower gearing in the transmission seems like a big deal but in the grand scheme of things it cost next to nothing.
Bucket seats? Standard run of the mill ones from basically 8 years ago. Suspension bits? Run of the mill GT3 Touring stuff with just a simple retune.
A 100k more than a Dakar when the later has much more development time and much more bespoke parts? is it April 1st yet?
This car will be much more accessible than the 911R. Almost double the production number of the 911R, 918 VIP allocation numbers are down, not much more than 100 left. Interest rate is sky high thus the number of people that can afford a 500k car after ADM is a lot fewer.
For those that are thinking of the S/T, you are much better off buying a 911R for basically the same price. The R will be a smaller car that's much more nimble. And it will have a higher ceiling for appreciation as the production number is that much smaller. Heck, go buy a Dakar which is a much cooler car and save yourself 100k, which can buy you a Corvette C8.
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#1895
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Not only that but here’s never been a Porsche accused more of being a parts bin car than the R when it came out, and look how that turned out. Sometimes people make extraordinary meals with ingredients they have at home, and plenty of terrible meals after hitting Publix.
None knows how cars will be remembered, if the idea of thing doesn’t move you skip it, if it moves you and can afford it buy it. How someone in the future will look back on it and where the parts were stored should be insignificant.
None knows how cars will be remembered, if the idea of thing doesn’t move you skip it, if it moves you and can afford it buy it. How someone in the future will look back on it and where the parts were stored should be insignificant.
Last edited by soulsea; 08-06-2023 at 03:28 PM.
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#1896
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Not only that but here’s never been a Porsche accused more of being a parts bin car than the R when it came out, and look how that turned out. Sometimes people make extraordinary meals with ingredients they have at home, and plenty of terrible meals after hitting Publix.
None knows how cars will be remembered, if the idea of thing doesn’t move you skip it, if it moves you and can afford it buy it. How someone in the future will look back on it and where the parts were stored should be insignificant.
None knows how cars will be remembered, if the idea of thing doesn’t move you skip it, if it moves you and can afford it buy it. How someone in the future will look back on it and where the parts were stored should be insignificant.
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#1897
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Haha it's your lucky day! Your chances of getting one just improved by 1.
I have informed Porsche I am not taking mine. Not buying a car that I have no use for. The appreciation potential has no influence whatsoever. If I want to buy something that will appreciate, I'd rather buy up paintings, they don't need maintenance or servicing.
Can't even think of one single scenario where I will take a S/T out instead of my other Porsches. I want driving enjoyment I take out the GT4RS. I want to roll my own gears I take out the turbo 3.6, or even the 968.
I have informed Porsche I am not taking mine. Not buying a car that I have no use for. The appreciation potential has no influence whatsoever. If I want to buy something that will appreciate, I'd rather buy up paintings, they don't need maintenance or servicing.
Can't even think of one single scenario where I will take a S/T out instead of my other Porsches. I want driving enjoyment I take out the GT4RS. I want to roll my own gears I take out the turbo 3.6, or even the 968.
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HelpMeHelpU (08-06-2023)
#1898
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I've tracked with full on race cars at private open track days, I may be a puzzy passer but I do have good track awareness and get out of the way of faster cars.
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raymort (08-06-2023)
#1899
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Haha it's your lucky day! Your chances of getting one just improved by 1.
I have informed Porsche I am not taking mine. Not buying a car that I have no use for. The appreciation potential has no influence whatsoever. If I want to buy something that will appreciate, I'd rather buy up paintings, they don't need maintenance or servicing.
Can't even think of one single scenario where I will take a S/T out instead of my other Porsches. I want driving enjoyment I take out the GT4RS. I want to roll my own gears I take out the turbo 3.6, or even the 968.
I have informed Porsche I am not taking mine. Not buying a car that I have no use for. The appreciation potential has no influence whatsoever. If I want to buy something that will appreciate, I'd rather buy up paintings, they don't need maintenance or servicing.
Can't even think of one single scenario where I will take a S/T out instead of my other Porsches. I want driving enjoyment I take out the GT4RS. I want to roll my own gears I take out the turbo 3.6, or even the 968.
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HelpMeHelpU (08-06-2023)
#1900
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At least 200k of my money, anyway.
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#1901
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I think the GT3 and Touring are probably worth around $200k and I think the GT4RS is probably worth in the high $100s but the only reason why my GT4RS MSRP went above $200k was because I got PTS on it and I wanted the mag wheels.
#1903
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I own a manual T with no RAS, no rear seats, and nothing but the extended range tank and nice interior. I also have a deposit on a GT3T. On Monday I'm putting a deposit on an ST. While the T is an amazing car and my spec turned out to be as close as one can get to a lite version of the black launch ST, it would be silly of me to suggest the GT3T is just a T without turbos and different suspension bits for $100k more. It's fine if you don't get the ST, but comparisons like that between the GT3T and the ST only communicate a misunderstanding about how these cars are the sum of their parts.
Last edited by Chris C.; 08-06-2023 at 04:29 PM.
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#1905
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The release of the S/T seems to have induced more emotional animosity than any other release of recent memory. Objectively, I find it no LESS unique (in terms of quantifiable changes) than any other special edition car.
Most of the arguments I hear against the specialness of the S/T (or any other car) seem to be 2 faceted. And, mostly made by people who will not get a special edition car. Or by people who claim they could have 20 S/Ts if they really wanted to as all it requires is $, which is a really odd flex to a bunch of anonymous, random people.
1. Parts Bin Special: It ONLY has a SMFW of which was introduced 22 years ago in the 3RS 4.0.
2. Minimizing the changes: It "essentially" has all the same stuff as a 911T which is 1/3rd the price. It "essentially" has the same stuff as a touring which is 100K cheaper.
Is the S/T OBECTIVELY better than a touring? Definitively, yes. Is it $100K better than a touring? Impossible to calculate. But, I can say with confidence that most people who have a S/T will state its $300K better than a touring. And, most people who don't have a S/T will says it's $10K better than a touring. Notice the trend?
Is the SC OBECTIVELY better than a GTS. Definitively, yes. Is it $100K better than a GTS? Impossible to calculate.
What most people fail to realize is we are firmly at the point of massively diminishing returns in regards to advancement. Making a 2% improvement may cost Porsche 20% and us 60%.
Finally, and most importantly, it's comical and egotistical that we should have any say or opinion in what Porsche builds, how many they build, and what they charge. It reminds me of a line in a Few Good Men.
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!"
TLDR: Feel free to start your own auto company and put a 4.4L NA motor that revs to 12K, 620HP, weighs 2,500lbs, has 20K quantity produced, and sells for $100K.
Most of the arguments I hear against the specialness of the S/T (or any other car) seem to be 2 faceted. And, mostly made by people who will not get a special edition car. Or by people who claim they could have 20 S/Ts if they really wanted to as all it requires is $, which is a really odd flex to a bunch of anonymous, random people.
1. Parts Bin Special: It ONLY has a SMFW of which was introduced 22 years ago in the 3RS 4.0.
2. Minimizing the changes: It "essentially" has all the same stuff as a 911T which is 1/3rd the price. It "essentially" has the same stuff as a touring which is 100K cheaper.
Is the S/T OBECTIVELY better than a touring? Definitively, yes. Is it $100K better than a touring? Impossible to calculate. But, I can say with confidence that most people who have a S/T will state its $300K better than a touring. And, most people who don't have a S/T will says it's $10K better than a touring. Notice the trend?
Is the SC OBECTIVELY better than a GTS. Definitively, yes. Is it $100K better than a GTS? Impossible to calculate.
What most people fail to realize is we are firmly at the point of massively diminishing returns in regards to advancement. Making a 2% improvement may cost Porsche 20% and us 60%.
Finally, and most importantly, it's comical and egotistical that we should have any say or opinion in what Porsche builds, how many they build, and what they charge. It reminds me of a line in a Few Good Men.
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!"
TLDR: Feel free to start your own auto company and put a 4.4L NA motor that revs to 12K, 620HP, weighs 2,500lbs, has 20K quantity produced, and sells for $100K.
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