911ST
08-02-2023 | 11:17 PM
#1741
Race Car
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 4,192
Likes: 2,326
From: California
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AlexCeres (08-03-2023)
08-02-2023 | 11:18 PM
#1742
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 931
Likes: 33
From: Minnesota
As much as I would like one of these, or an RS, we all know I am not likely to without some crazy ADM on top of the MSRP. So then my mind wanders to what other Porsches can I get with that kind of money... a 964 Carrera RS certainly fits the bill dollar wise. There have been a bunch on BaT lately, though that alone seems suspicious to me as 1) there weren't a lot of them made and 2) none originally came to the US. I can pay more and get a 911 Reimagined by Singer, the what is now being referred to as the Classic model or the first. That to me is far more special than the whatever iteration of the 992 made on an assembly line with a ridiculous ADM.
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heshalosny (08-02-2023)
08-02-2023 | 11:28 PM
#1743
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,087
Likes: 1,872
From: 29464
What’s interesting to me is how so many people bemoan what all the latest nannies have taken away from the purity of driving by disallowing the driver to dictate their own mistakes without being saved by hardware and coding. Yet here, without RAS, we have a throwback to a more dare I say analog experience, yet so many people are now bemoaning the fact that the car won’t help them. One of the primary reasons the SC is so special is with turbo lag reintroduced, more power than a GT3RS, RWD, and non sticky tires, it will allow you to kill yourself if you don’t know how to accelerate out of a corner, and hopefully the ST will also allow for that in it’s own way.
Last edited by soulsea; 08-02-2023 at 11:37 PM.
08-02-2023 | 11:36 PM
#1744
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 16,866
Likes: 4,156
It’s been about nine years since a 911 GT car hasn’t had RAS … I am all but certain that unless deleting it added a special dimension to the car, never mind lessened the car, AP would have never let it go past their first test drive. Obviously they have found something there and it will certainly differentiate the driving dynamics from the other GT cars… will it be mostly contrived for marketing’s sake or the elusive fairy dust is yet to be determined, bit it is the kind of stuff fairy dust can be made of.
What’s interesting to me is how so many people bemoan what all the latest nannies have taken away from the purity of driving by disallowing the driver to dictate their own mistakes without being saved by hardware and coding. Yet here, without RAS, we have a throwback to a more dare I say analog experience, yet so many people are now bemoaning the fact that the car won’t help them. One of the primary reasons the SC is so special is with turbo lag reintroduced, more power than a GT3RS, RWD, and non sticky tires, it will allow you to kill yourself if you don’t know how to accelerate out of a corner, and hopefully the ST will also allow for that in it’s own way. If you want all the modern nannies, be it for peak performance on track or to be able to let the car figure itself out without need for precision, the TTS is available.
What’s interesting to me is how so many people bemoan what all the latest nannies have taken away from the purity of driving by disallowing the driver to dictate their own mistakes without being saved by hardware and coding. Yet here, without RAS, we have a throwback to a more dare I say analog experience, yet so many people are now bemoaning the fact that the car won’t help them. One of the primary reasons the SC is so special is with turbo lag reintroduced, more power than a GT3RS, RWD, and non sticky tires, it will allow you to kill yourself if you don’t know how to accelerate out of a corner, and hopefully the ST will also allow for that in it’s own way. If you want all the modern nannies, be it for peak performance on track or to be able to let the car figure itself out without need for precision, the TTS is available.
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raymort (08-02-2023)
08-02-2023 | 11:42 PM
#1745
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,087
Likes: 1,872
From: 29464
I for one love the nannies (aka auto-save) on the 997 and up GT cars, it allows me to really push the car and not have really bad things happen when I make a small mistake going for the PB lap times. This is one of the reasons why I won't ever buy an antique Porsche because I also like the navi, carplay, power steering, and ABS as well as the nannies.
The ST isn’t a track car, I think I heard AP say outright if your want a track car this isn’t for you, so I’m guessing that they compromised track performance because they found that deleting RAS added something better to the street experience, if not a standalone element then in the entire package … i don’t know this to be true, time will tell, but I’m pretty sure they didn’t just wing it or try to make it worse than the GT3.
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usctrojanGT3 (08-02-2023)
08-02-2023 | 11:47 PM
#1746
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 16,866
Likes: 4,156
I actually completely agree. On track you want all the help you can get. In my experience the fastest drivers will go faster without nannies but us mortals will go faster with them, and they will certainly cure many of our mistakes.
The ST isn’t a track car, I think I heard AP say outright if your want a track car this isn’t for you, so I’m guessing that they compromised track performance because they found that deleting RAS added something better to the street experience, if not a standalone element then in the entire package … i don’t know this to be true, time will tell, but I’m pretty sure they didn’t just wing it or try to make it worse than the GT3.
The ST isn’t a track car, I think I heard AP say outright if your want a track car this isn’t for you, so I’m guessing that they compromised track performance because they found that deleting RAS added something better to the street experience, if not a standalone element then in the entire package … i don’t know this to be true, time will tell, but I’m pretty sure they didn’t just wing it or try to make it worse than the GT3.
08-02-2023 | 11:49 PM
#1747
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 13,427
Likes: 4,631
From: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
RWS isn't a nanny. It changes the effective wheelbase of the car based on the speed of the car, giving the effect of a shorter wheelbase in tighter slower corners and a longer wheelbase in faster sweepers. It doesn't change any parameters to correct for a driver's errors to 'save' a driver.
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08-02-2023 | 11:50 PM
#1748
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,834
Likes: 335
I would also add with the nannies, you can do laps more consistently and comfortably as a non-pro driver. That has a value in my opinion and makes it that much more enjoyable.
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usctrojanGT3 (08-03-2023)
08-03-2023 | 12:13 AM
#1749
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,087
Likes: 1,872
From: 29464
RWS isn't a nanny. It changes the effective wheelbase of the car based on the speed of the car, giving the effect of a shorter wheelbase in tighter slower corners and a longer wheelbase in faster sweepers. It doesn't change any parameters to correct for a driver's errors to 'save' a driver.
Do cup cars have RAS?
We can argue semantics all day long, but it’s one of the many digital/hardware technologies that make big heavy street cars easier to drive on the road and on track.
Again, I’m not arguing for or against it, I love how it works on all my recent 911s including the 992 GT3 … I’m just arguing for waiting to see how the ST drives without it before having an opinion.
Last edited by soulsea; 08-03-2023 at 12:18 AM.
08-03-2023 | 12:24 AM
#1750
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 16,866
Likes: 4,156
RWS isn't a nanny. It changes the effective wheelbase of the car based on the speed of the car, giving the effect of a shorter wheelbase in tighter slower corners and a longer wheelbase in faster sweepers. It doesn't change any parameters to correct for a driver's errors to 'save' a driver.
08-03-2023 | 12:27 AM
#1751
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 3,409
Likes: 3,147
I am curious to hear from the Porsche engineers as to their reasoning to remove it on the S/T since it is more geared towards being a street car.
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Diablo Dude (08-03-2023)
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DontLift (08-03-2023)
08-03-2023 | 12:31 AM
#1753
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 2,252
I would wager if you drove the same 2 cars back to back on track, one with RAS and one without, your butt meter could certainly tell the difference.
I am curious to hear from the Porsche engineers as to their reasoning to remove it on the S/T since it is more geared towards being a street car.
I am curious to hear from the Porsche engineers as to their reasoning to remove it on the S/T since it is more geared towards being a street car.
08-03-2023 | 12:32 AM
#1754
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 13,427
Likes: 4,631
From: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
How many pro racing series run RAS?
Do cup cars have RAS?
We can argue semantics all day long, but it’s one of the many digital/hardware technologies that make big heavy street cars easier to drive on the road and on track.
Again, I’m not arguing for or against it, I love how it works on all my recent 911s including the 992 GT3 … I’m just arguing for waiting to see how the ST drives without it before having an opinion.
Do cup cars have RAS?
We can argue semantics all day long, but it’s one of the many digital/hardware technologies that make big heavy street cars easier to drive on the road and on track.
Again, I’m not arguing for or against it, I love how it works on all my recent 911s including the 992 GT3 … I’m just arguing for waiting to see how the ST drives without it before having an opinion.
I put RAS in the same category as PASM, PTV, and PDCC: things that improve vehicle dynamics and performance, not save the driver from mistakes.
I’m sure the ST will drive fine without RAS. But not necessarily better.
Last edited by Manifold; 08-03-2023 at 08:44 AM.
08-03-2023 | 12:33 AM
#1755
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 2,252
How many pro racing series run RAS?
Do cup cars have RAS?
We can argue semantics all day long, but it’s one of the many digital/hardware technologies that make big heavy street cars easier to drive on the road and on track.
Again, I’m not arguing for or against it, I love how it works on all my recent 911s including the 992 GT3 … I’m just arguing for waiting to see how the ST drives without it before having an opinion.
Do cup cars have RAS?
We can argue semantics all day long, but it’s one of the many digital/hardware technologies that make big heavy street cars easier to drive on the road and on track.
Again, I’m not arguing for or against it, I love how it works on all my recent 911s including the 992 GT3 … I’m just arguing for waiting to see how the ST drives without it before having an opinion.