New Z06 and 992 GT3 on the NRing
11-02-2021, 10:33 AM
#511
Instructor
Are Cup 2 R tires fitted on the 992 GT3's from the factory? I know those tires were crucial in Porsche achieving Sub 7 times at the Ring.
My understanding was they were to be sold/fitted to cars for delivery. So far, I have yet to see Cup 2 R tires fitted to any production 992.
At least in the case of GM with their 1LE's and Corvettes - the tire that got them the Ring lap times are the same ones fitted to their cars and delivered accordingly.
My understanding was they were to be sold/fitted to cars for delivery. So far, I have yet to see Cup 2 R tires fitted to any production 992.
At least in the case of GM with their 1LE's and Corvettes - the tire that got them the Ring lap times are the same ones fitted to their cars and delivered accordingly.
11-02-2021, 10:36 AM
#512
Are Cup 2 R tires fitted on the 992 GT3's from the factory? I know those tires were crucial in Porsche achieving Sub 7 times at the Ring.
My understanding was they were to be sold/fitted to cars for delivery. So far, I have yet to see Cup 2 R tires fitted to any production 992.
At least in the case of GM with their 1LE's and Corvettes - the tire that got them the Ring lap times are the same ones fitted to their cars and delivered accordingly.
My understanding was they were to be sold/fitted to cars for delivery. So far, I have yet to see Cup 2 R tires fitted to any production 992.
At least in the case of GM with their 1LE's and Corvettes - the tire that got them the Ring lap times are the same ones fitted to their cars and delivered accordingly.
Last edited by 3-Pedals; 11-02-2021 at 10:37 AM.
11-02-2021, 10:37 AM
#513
Instructor
Not only that but also GM's lap times are achieved with OEM spec cars that you, me, or the other guy can spec out. Majority of Porsche's lap times are with cars that have Nav/A/C deletes, with hero tires as you say no one really gets/uses in real life, magnesium wheels that yes you could order but again very hard to get them. These small changes do add up and help the car achieve its lap times. Furthermore, I am certain that as per the stock vs track brake pads Porsche must have used these "track pads" that again in nurburgring you can feel the difference.
11-02-2021, 10:41 AM
#514
Of course it is. They also use professional drivers for these lap times who know this track so well vs GM using either their engineers or US race drivers who have nowhere near the experience there. GM's lap times are much closer to what normal humans who own the cars would achieve vs Porsche's times are these utopic times that we could never get close to.
Also, did you see who did the lap time for 992 GT3 vs the new 718 GT4RS? They literally used a different driver who is known not to be as good to hold the GT4RS back.
Sport Auto journalist who is a very good driver posted 8 seconds slower time with the new GT3 than the Porsche time. In the past, his lap times were much closer to Porsche's. The difference is the car he uses is normal vs the Porsche's cars are these special spec cars.
Also, did you see who did the lap time for 992 GT3 vs the new 718 GT4RS? They literally used a different driver who is known not to be as good to hold the GT4RS back.
Sport Auto journalist who is a very good driver posted 8 seconds slower time with the new GT3 than the Porsche time. In the past, his lap times were much closer to Porsche's. The difference is the car he uses is normal vs the Porsche's cars are these special spec cars.
11-02-2021, 11:29 AM
#515
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Last edited by GrantG; 11-02-2021 at 11:32 AM.
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-eztrader- (11-03-2021)
11-02-2021, 08:06 PM
#516
Intermediate
Can't wait for the Z06 times to start showing up, should make this thread even more fun. I guess we'll find out about the longevity of that Z06 motor, but it really looks impressive, hopefully it can hold up on the track. But with the previous Z06 oil and over heating issues, you'd hope GM would knock this one out of the park. Visually, it's up to you if you like the C8 or not, I'm 50/50 on it, but what I don't like about the C8 may have been corrected with the changes/updates with the Z06. But again need to see in person. Pictures of the 992 GT3, in my opinion, didn't do it justice. It is much, much better looking in person, and I liked the pictures of it!
11-02-2021, 08:49 PM
#517
Racer
A lot of mis-information in this thread.
--Cup 2R tires are worth about 1.5-2 seconds every 2 miles vs the Cup 2. On the N-ring it's about 10-14 second delta, depending on the car. Lightning lap is probably worth about 3-4 seconds.
--The CS Vette and Z06 vette (c7), GT500 track pack, and GT350R use a stickier Cup 2 compound compared to the standard Porsche Cup 2s (what 3-Pedals said is exactly right). The stickier spec is somewhere between regular Cup 2 and Cup2 R.
--The Lightning Lap is done with a series of journalists who are not professional racers. Sport Auto journalists (Horst von Saurma and Christian Gephardt) are at a totally different level vs C&D (have true racing pedigree) and are only a small % off pro racing drivers times in literally taking a car right off the showroom floor (no race seat, no new brake pads, no special safety cage, etc) and driving 3 laps (one warm up, one flying, one cool down). This is very different than the hundreds of laps Porsche is using to eek out the max out of every car.
--There is no way that a Vette GS is reapeatedly beating a .1 or .2 RS given equivalent driver skill on any track with same tires. In fact the journos at that skill level are likely to extract more out of a front engine rear drive car as are easier to drive vs rear or mid engine.
IMO, the Z06 will probably be faster than GT3 (or very close) as power will more than offset less DF and higher weight of the Z06, but don't see the Z06 beating the 992 RS time. The RS will probably be producing 1,300+ lbs of DF at top speed (which is a higher % of the car's weight which is how you need to measure relative DF).
--Cup 2R tires are worth about 1.5-2 seconds every 2 miles vs the Cup 2. On the N-ring it's about 10-14 second delta, depending on the car. Lightning lap is probably worth about 3-4 seconds.
--The CS Vette and Z06 vette (c7), GT500 track pack, and GT350R use a stickier Cup 2 compound compared to the standard Porsche Cup 2s (what 3-Pedals said is exactly right). The stickier spec is somewhere between regular Cup 2 and Cup2 R.
--The Lightning Lap is done with a series of journalists who are not professional racers. Sport Auto journalists (Horst von Saurma and Christian Gephardt) are at a totally different level vs C&D (have true racing pedigree) and are only a small % off pro racing drivers times in literally taking a car right off the showroom floor (no race seat, no new brake pads, no special safety cage, etc) and driving 3 laps (one warm up, one flying, one cool down). This is very different than the hundreds of laps Porsche is using to eek out the max out of every car.
--There is no way that a Vette GS is reapeatedly beating a .1 or .2 RS given equivalent driver skill on any track with same tires. In fact the journos at that skill level are likely to extract more out of a front engine rear drive car as are easier to drive vs rear or mid engine.
IMO, the Z06 will probably be faster than GT3 (or very close) as power will more than offset less DF and higher weight of the Z06, but don't see the Z06 beating the 992 RS time. The RS will probably be producing 1,300+ lbs of DF at top speed (which is a higher % of the car's weight which is how you need to measure relative DF).
Last edited by FogCitySF; 11-02-2021 at 11:13 PM.
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DarthBalls (11-03-2021)
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95spiderman (11-09-2021)
11-09-2021, 11:31 AM
#519
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
A lot of mis-information in this thread.
--Cup 2R tires are worth about 1.5-2 seconds every 2 miles vs the Cup 2. On the N-ring it's about 10-14 second delta, depending on the car. Lightning lap is probably worth about 3-4 seconds.
--The CS Vette and Z06 vette (c7), GT500 track pack, and GT350R use a stickier Cup 2 compound compared to the standard Porsche Cup 2s (what 3-Pedals said is exactly right). The stickier spec is somewhere between regular Cup 2 and Cup2 R.
--The Lightning Lap is done with a series of journalists who are not professional racers. Sport Auto journalists (Horst von Saurma and Christian Gephardt) are at a totally different level vs C&D (have true racing pedigree) and are only a small % off pro racing drivers times in literally taking a car right off the showroom floor (no race seat, no new brake pads, no special safety cage, etc) and driving 3 laps (one warm up, one flying, one cool down). This is very different than the hundreds of laps Porsche is using to eek out the max out of every car.
--There is no way that a Vette GS is reapeatedly beating a .1 or .2 RS given equivalent driver skill on any track with same tires. In fact the journos at that skill level are likely to extract more out of a front engine rear drive car as are easier to drive vs rear or mid engine.
IMO, the Z06 will probably be faster than GT3 (or very close) as power will more than offset less DF and higher weight of the Z06, but don't see the Z06 beating the 992 RS time. The RS will probably be producing 1,300+ lbs of DF at top speed (which is a higher % of the car's weight which is how you need to measure relative DF).
--Cup 2R tires are worth about 1.5-2 seconds every 2 miles vs the Cup 2. On the N-ring it's about 10-14 second delta, depending on the car. Lightning lap is probably worth about 3-4 seconds.
--The CS Vette and Z06 vette (c7), GT500 track pack, and GT350R use a stickier Cup 2 compound compared to the standard Porsche Cup 2s (what 3-Pedals said is exactly right). The stickier spec is somewhere between regular Cup 2 and Cup2 R.
--The Lightning Lap is done with a series of journalists who are not professional racers. Sport Auto journalists (Horst von Saurma and Christian Gephardt) are at a totally different level vs C&D (have true racing pedigree) and are only a small % off pro racing drivers times in literally taking a car right off the showroom floor (no race seat, no new brake pads, no special safety cage, etc) and driving 3 laps (one warm up, one flying, one cool down). This is very different than the hundreds of laps Porsche is using to eek out the max out of every car.
--There is no way that a Vette GS is reapeatedly beating a .1 or .2 RS given equivalent driver skill on any track with same tires. In fact the journos at that skill level are likely to extract more out of a front engine rear drive car as are easier to drive vs rear or mid engine.
IMO, the Z06 will probably be faster than GT3 (or very close) as power will more than offset less DF and higher weight of the Z06, but don't see the Z06 beating the 992 RS time. The RS will probably be producing 1,300+ lbs of DF at top speed (which is a higher % of the car's weight which is how you need to measure relative DF).
Will make plenty of downforce when it needs it though…
11-09-2021, 12:49 PM
#520
Race Director
Originally Posted by RobertR1
Randy at Laguna is good enough for me.
11-09-2021, 02:12 PM
#521
Racer
Yeah you're right...the active aero might make it produce LESS downforce at Vmax vs prior gen. I think though at the times when it needs it, would think a 30% increase in DF over prior gen is probably a reasonable expectation (maybe too conservative given flexibility of active aero?)
11-09-2021, 02:14 PM
#522
Racer
I'm hoping my allocation comes early enough for Hypercar Invitational next year so I can give Randy mine to set a few fun laps during Hypercar Invitational. We have some no sound limit days scheduled and that's probably one of the few times this car will be able to run at Laguna without some modification to the exhaust to make it quieter and therefore possibly slower.
totally kidding... w/ supply chain issues what's the over/under on the first cars making it to the US?
11-09-2021, 03:26 PM
#523
Race Director
Originally Posted by FogCitySF
"Two levels below hypercar invitational?" totally kidding... w/ supply chain issues what's the over/under on the first cars making it to the US?
totally kidding... w/ supply chain issues what's the over/under on the first cars making it to the US?Aren't corvettes built in Kentucky? I mean I realize that feels like a different country when living in Cali but??
First deliveries should be by June.. fingers crossed.
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11-09-2021, 03:57 PM
#524
Racer
Need a logo car/pace car.. while my guests may have $1M hypercars, I certainly don't. But I think the exhaust sound alone will make for a good show with Randy at the wheel
Aren't corvettes built in Kentucky? I mean I realize that feels like a different country when living in Cali but??
First deliveries should be by June.. fingers crossed.
Aren't corvettes built in Kentucky? I mean I realize that feels like a different country when living in Cali but??
First deliveries should be by June.. fingers crossed.
(totally joking)
Last edited by FogCitySF; 11-09-2021 at 03:58 PM.
11-09-2021, 04:32 PM
#525
8th Gear
Sometimes A Stat Is Just A Stat
It just doesn’t matter how fast the Z06 will be on the ring. The problem is that it won’t stay together if driven hard by the owner (my experience with the C7 Z06). And GM mechanics don’t know how to fix the issues that will arise. So unless you plan to treat the car as a garage queen, don’t buy. And if you treat as a garage queen, it doesn’t matter how fast it is around the ring.
Sometimes a stat is simply just a stat . . . and not a reality.