I have

I track my cars a lot and have tracked both NA and TT cars from a variety of manufacturers.

My personal take... a NA engine with sufficient power is my preferred choice on the track. That doesn't mean a TT is not great in that venue... it is. My current car is an M4 and BMW has done a great job of managing lag and power delivery but I still feel that the NA car is better and especially so on tight tracks with slower corners. I do prefer the M4 over the non-TT M3 on the track because it is the better overall car.

Having said that, on the street, a TT is effortless and instantly powerful. There is some advantage for street driving if power is your thing. A high powered, high revving NA engine (like the GTS) still has loads and loads of usable every day power too (more than anyone needs on the street to blast around) but it is more accessible in a TT if someone prefers that feeling.

My M4 is faster than my NA M3 and I prefer it on the track but that is somewhat because the car as a whole is better. The risk for Porsche, I think, is having a new engine but no changes to the chassis. Therefore, it is a pure TT vs. NA comparison. If they waited and added the TT in the next generation car with a better chassis, brakes, weight, etc, then you would hear fewer people having concerns once they drove it as the overall experience might be better notwithstanding the engine.

I do believe Porsche will get the TT right and it will be linear and very torquey and the reviews will reflect that. However, one area that Porsche will not be able to replicate is the sound and, for many, that is a BIG part of the experience and enjoyment of a car.

I do believe Porsche will get the TT right and it will be linear and very torquey and the reviews will reflect that. However, one area that Porsche will not be able to replicate is the sound and, for many, that is a BIG part of the experience and enjoyment of a car.[/QUOTE]


I too will wait because I don't think with this much of a change in the 911 that Porsche will do this half assed. I am of the belief that all the other important incidentals will be taken care of.

Also it was not that long ago before PSE that the NA cars did not have much bite sound wise also. I had the pleasure of owning 4 previous Porsche TT's and had Europipe exhausts on 3 of them. Sound was amazing. So there are fixes for the things that matter but don't really make the car run better, in the end it's just noise.

It will be interesting to see what the new car can do. Way to much hand wringing and in fighting going on for a car that will be here in a few months. If it isn't a wonderful car we all get to keep an already wonderful car. And if it is really great, possibly groundbreaking then we can sneak to the dealers under the cloak of darkness to drive one.

Dude, perhaps you should focus more, because I don't even know what article you think I posted. I haven't linked any articles in this thread, so I think you might want to direct your 'science' comment to someone else.

As regards the M4/RS5 comparison, they're basically a wash, near identical times and mileage. The only difference in times is due to weight differences, both overall and distribution. And btw, the 26 mpg highway you quoted for the M4 is for the manual; I was comparing DCT/DCT. The BMW only gets 24 mpg highway in DCT form, which is the correct comparison to an RS5, which only comes in DCT. And in the real world, an M4 owner will tell you they get **** mileage just like an RS5, nowhere near the ratings (in fact I think an M4 owner posted as much in the other thread).

In the real world, in a sporty car with lots of power, the turbo isn't going to provide much of any advantage. It's a regulatory play plain and simple. I'm fairly confident that Porsche has got it right and the cars will be awesome, but the would have been just the same in NA form, but for the regulators forcing the hand of the manufacturers.

That's what I'd bet, 1-2 mpg increase in the ratings, basically nil real world driving. We should know soon enough.

The "truth" is that emissions regulations are the reason for the 911's switch to turbochargers; just as they'll be the reason for the switch to electrics in a few years. Claiming anything else is simply a sign of feeble critical-thinking skills.

Sure the Turbos might be a bit faster, get a few more mpg, have more torque, etc; the same would have been the case for the entire history of the 911 yet Porsche didn't do it until governments forced their hand.

Of course. I don't think anyone disagrees. Having said that, if they do it right, perhaps the weight savings and added low-end torque will make for an even more enjoyable car. Time will tell.

Sorry about that. Indeed it wasn't you posting that article.



On the other stuff, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. It will make a difference for anyone who DDs their car. Perhaps not noticeably for you if you are pedal to the metal all the time - but for anyone who spends enough time on the freeway, it will.
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1091942

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-new...wer-arms-race/

And will the next 911 GT3 go turbocharged?

Andreas Preuninger :

Doesn't look like it. While the 911 family as a whole will turn to turbo power, Preuninger reiterated that GT3 versions would stick with natural aspiration.

"I like atmospherical engines, because they are more linear, better driveability, lighter, more emotional", he says.

But what does he know??? ^^^^ must not be aware of the secrets held within.....

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...he-911-gt-cars

The truth is, it might not be enough considering my 6 year old BMW is already pushing more than that at the wheels. As you might understand, it will be difficult decision for me to upgrade if the new car is not much faster than my current one. But again, as any logical person, I will probably test drive both the 991.1 and 991.2 once it come out to make a decision, and probably save myself a few $10k on a low mileage used 991.1 if the .2 is indeed a step toward the wrong direction by Porsche.

Well said, but the truth is, cars are getting bigger and heavier every generation (there might a reversal of such trend in the future with the increase use of composite), since due to the added safety features and comfort. A Carrera 2S with PDK is approaching 3200-3300lbs if the car is heavy on options (PDK, glass sunroof). 400-420hp NA might be more than enough just a few years ago, is no longer so with the added weight and increasing pressure from the competition's horsepower war by AMG and BMW M, etc. I would think I am not alone to think that it would be great that Porsche could keep the 911 at the 993 size and weight (at sub 3000lbs for the RWD coupe models), but just update the suspension and engine technology, while keeping everything else relatively compact and lightweight. But such is not the reality, so now we are stuck with turbo engines, whether you like it or not. But given the Porsche's long and illustrious history with turbos, I am confident that they will get it right, including the sound and the earlier spy video of the turbo flat six shows that they just fine, with all iconic gurgle and pop that you would expect from a 911.

Btw, I know this is entirely a personal opinion, but I really think the exhaust noise of the S65 from the last gen M3 was overrated, at least with the stock exhaust system. The new M4 actually sounds incredibly good with the optional M Performance Exhaust. If BMW can get their exhaust sound right, I am sure Porsche will as well. Hell, I just recently helped my old lady to take delivery of a Macan Turbo, even that thing sounds pretty decent despite being a V6 stuck in a SUV chassis.

BMW still faking it??

http://m.caranddriver.com/features/f...ined-tech-dept

You can't fake the sound you hear from the outside... At least I hope they don't resort down to that for the next gen car. lol, imagine BMW and Porsche just gave up and start mounting speakers around rear bumper to make the car sound good.

911's have never been horsepower ******. It's the package deal that makes the car.

You want horsepower, buy a Vette. Think you're making a difference, buy a Prius. Want something to drive to the country club, buy a BMW. Want to live the dream, buy a 911.

Of course, but there are only two ways to enjoy a proper sports car at where I live, at the local race tracks and on the highway on-ramps here at Chicago, considering we don't have the nice winding roads like the west coast guys are blessed with and I swear to god that there are developing countries out there with much nicer road surface than what I see at some of the local streets here.

Given that I plan to use the car as a daily driver as well, a bit more "oomph" that comes along with the gas pedal is pretty attractive to me, since the "real Turbos" are bit beyond my price range and the fact that I much prefer the RWD in the Carrera models.

Chicago roads SUCK. Especially in the city. No enjoyable driving there with the traffic. A sports car needs room to breath.

My friend, check out the "hot for sale pick of the week" thread. You can get an amazing 991 C2S with less than 5K miles for 20-30K off sticker. Find a nice CPO 2012.5 or 2013.

You won't want to buy the first year of the 991.2 if at all. That means you're 3+ years away minimum of finding a used 991.2 for any decent price.

I don't want to argue with you for the next 3 years. I'll find you a 991.1 in no time.

I have been keeping an eye on the used market as well. But I am in no rush to make the decision anytime soon. My 6 year old BMW is showing some age, but it is still going strong despite the track abuse that I put it through. So I am perfectly happy to wait for the 2nd year model of the 991.2 to avoid being the beta tester for Porsche.

If they are any good, I am ok with buying new and do a custom order since I plan on being a long term owner with the car (that's why I have been lurking on these forums for the past year or so to catch any reliability issue with these cars, so avoid another IMS like issue down the line). And if the 991.2 are crap indeed (whether because of the feel or reliability issue), I am sure I will be able to find a used 991.1 C2S/GTS or even a 991.1 Turbo S for a decent price by then as well.

Try 3050 lbs for basic stripped manual 993 C2. Yup. With 270-282hp to drive it. Now try 3150 for the same car in 991GTS flavor, with a full tank of gas, measured by one of our very own friends here on RL a few months ago, with pictures of the scales. And 430hp. So 150-160 extra hp to carry that extra 100 pounds. And the 991 is the lightest 911 since the 993.

964 was the last 911 under 3000 pounds, and it just barely. And that was a long, long time ago, my friend.

http://www.excellence-mag.com/resour...2#.VbWEVZK9KSN