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Yep, July 1st. My bet is that it'll have no impact whatsoever related to this specific issue. If it did, that recall in December would not have been optional, and there wouldn't be such a shortage on the VTS module.
If anything, needing to replace the module in every car would almost certainly cause a shortage...It's not realistic to think VWAG would be able to ramp up production so quickly to satisfy the demand a total recall would require.
If Porsche doesn't want baseless rumormongering, wild speculation, and widespread assumptions of bad faith, they could put a stop to it immediately by issuing a single TSB. Failing that, the only remaining conclusion is that they are enjoying the publicity.
.. or the wildly more realistic scenario of "yeah that's actually not the problem at all"
There is a document from Porsche that says, albeit unclearly, that every car they've made since 2010 has an engineered single point of failure that depends on a third-party network to continue operating normally. The device in question has one purpose: to make the car stop working under certain conditions which, it appears, are not under the control of either Porsche or the cars' owners.
If Porsche doesn't want baseless rumormongering, wild speculation, and widespread assumptions of bad faith, they could put a stop to it immediately by issuing a single TSB. Failing that, the only remaining conclusion is that they are enjoying the publicity.
Post 27 ("Ensure the PVTS CU has sufficient GPS and GSM reception.")
GSM and 3G/4G/5G are separate concepts, and GSM was originally a 2G standard. But a GSM implementation in 2010 would have been based on 3G technology, AFAIK. It would not be expected to work after 3G towers are shut down.
Last edited by Larson E. Rapp; May 18, 2022 at 07:00 PM.
Post 27 ("Ensure the PVTS CU has sufficient GPS and GSM reception.")
GSM and 3G/4G/5G are separate concepts, and GSM was originally a 2G standard. But a GSM implementation in 2010 would have been based on 3G technology, AFAIK. It would not be expected to work after 3G towers are shut down.
GSM in this context is specifically referring to the 2G technology. The 3G version of GSM is called UMTS.
I would make sense that GSM support was baked in at that time. It was considered a fallback option. There's still 2G out there today -- I pop onto 2G periodically when driving out through the farm country west of where I live. I also fall completely out of signal, especially in river valleys. People who live in mountainous regions are also familiar with this issue.
The NHTSA article you excerpted from in post 27 is the OTA update procedure for a specific hardware revision of the PVTS module, which can have anti-theft erroneously triggered due to vibrations, not loss of cellular signal. For the other hardware revision (which is a larger number, so it is presumably newer), OTA updates are not possible and physical replacement of the module is required.
A specific hardware version that we're told is in all Porsches from 2010-2021.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, I hope (and assume) you're correct. But what you are reading is not what the document says. The document says it applies to ALL models from 2010-2021. If that is not correct, then great. We're not being told.
Key question being, if it's in "all models," is it in "all cars?" Some of the cars? Most of the cars...?
Last edited by Larson E. Rapp; May 18, 2022 at 08:17 PM.
A specific hardware version that we're told is in all Porsches from 2010-2021.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, I hope (and assume) you're correct. But what you are reading is not what the document says. The document says it applies to ALL models from 2010-2021. If that is not correct, then great. We're not being told.
Key question being, if it's in "all models," is it in "all cars?" Some of the cars? Most of the cars...?
The way the TSB reads to me is that there are two available hardware revisions at the time of the TSB -- one of them can receive updates OTA, requiring an active account (since it can't use the cell network without an account). The other cannot receive OTA updates and must receive a physical replacement in order to be updated.
If I had to guess, the physical differences between the two hardware revisions extends only to updated chips, either for more durability, security, or lowering cost for the same functionality. You know, the usual stuff. A module updating its own firmware (via OTA updates, for example) is a comparatively more complex and costly setup in terms of hardware.
Same with my car 911.2 Targa 4S 2018 - Will not re start after pulling out of the garage. Towed to dealer - confirmed VTS controller replacement needed
I did a quick search outside Rennslist. It looks like this goes back to 2012 from what I have found from other owners. I took a screen shot of how an owner had his Indy remove it. I don’t know if this applies or if it’s even possible, but could be worth looking into.
Here is a link to the one of the forums I have read:
Not sure exactly what is going on, and may never will. However, I’d assume that 98% of Porsche owners are NOT on internet forums like this one, and there does seem to be a spike in very late model cars experiencing the same issue based on what I’m able to find via Google. I mean, for starters, mine is a 2019 with 5,000 miles on it.
On Reddit there is a post about this happening to someone and the dealer told the owner they have 7 other cars there with the same issue. Not sure how reliable the source is, but also not sure why they’d make such a thing up.
Anyways, I care less about how this happened and more about how long it’s going to take to get the part, and just how much of my relatively new car is going to have to get pulled apart to install it.
I don’t buy the story about this being a standard parts failure. These parts are too new for a cluster of failures like this to be considered normal or expected. Could certainly be a bad batch I suppose.
Anyways, I’m expecting an update on the part ETA tomorrow. If it’s late July, that will be a real bummer.
Last edited by MichaelB1969; May 19, 2022 at 02:23 AM.
My dealer indicated I was the 2nd vehicle they diagnosed with the same in as many days, late July was what I told as well. Following this thread closely with hopes of it being resolved soon. FWIW, my build date was Dec 2018.
I don’t buy the story about this being a standard parts failure. These parts are too new for a cluster of failures like this to be considered normal or expected. Could certainly be a bad batch I suppose.
Anyways, I’m expecting an update on the part ETA tomorrow. If it’s late July, that will be a real bumme
Hmmm ... is this particular device/capability something that should "simply" be removed? Would removal void the warranty on those cars under warranty? Would removal increase insurance costs?
Sure, there would be less security, but perhaps this is offset by more reliability, especially given Porsche's uncaring response both in parts and loaner cars?
I would think that if the solution could be as easy as just removal, they would have at least suggested it and leave it up to the customer as accept or deny such service. I would readily accept the removal solution rather than a disabled car during the height of the driving season.
