When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
And completing that trifecta, I had to have a 7MT with no hole in the roof. Have an old open car (does that call my enthusiast card into question?), and wanted the coupe-iest Carrera coupe I could get. Never miss having a sunroof, and actually delight in its absence when inside and outside of the car.
It's great that the 991 offered something for everyone in most variants where the 997 generation didn't. Remember 997.1s with mandatory sunroofs—even in the GT3—and the costly/complex/heavy 993/996/997 Targa concept? And if you wanted a 993/996/997 Turbo with glass overhead, which I will admit I like for other reasons unexplainable in the 991 Turbo? Sorry, no can do in a 993/996/997 Turbo.
Porsche really got the body configurations right with the 991. Cabriolet marked a big improvement, as well. My only real/minor complaint is the small-ish side windows and ultra-thick B-pillars in the coupe.
I like the 991 glass sunroof. Dark tint and black paint goes with the rear window and hood grilles.
Last edited by PAPorscheGuy; 01-28-2021 at 11:19 PM.
Let me guess - your car was at a dealer in Philly?
Also, I don’t hate sunroofs, I just have never opened them on any of the 911s I’ve owned over the years hence my preference to not have one at all. Different strokes and all that.....I guess my purpose of using the caps was they’re really tough to find. Due to that It was on my list of wants as a “nice to have” but a pleasant surprise to find.
Yes it was. I'm in Maryland so Philly really isn't far at all.
Yeah I think it was the caps that got my interest piqued lol... but also the fact that you're not the only one I've seen on here that considers the sunroof a major detraction. As I mentioned I personally love it; love the all-glass look, and when completely open actually does a great job of "simulating" an open-air experience on the rare sunny and non-humid days around here I'd take advantage of it.
I do hear you that habit factors into this type of preference a lot too... one of my first cars that I spent a ton of time in was an S13 240SX, with the flip-up/removable "moonroof" that was almost always flipped up. So it just became a habit, so from then on out I've always considered it a "very much nice to have" option. Based on the comments, looks like I'm not the only one... but I also realize there are folks who would prefer the opposite.
my glass roof is a must, if the car didnt have it I passed on it....solid roof is claustropbic to me plus i always elevate the rear of roof to get some air flow in there and U can hear the PSE better
Great idea to open the roof to hear the PSE. As mentioned above, I appreciate the way Porsche implemented the glass roof. It would be difficult to tell it’s a sunroof if you didn’t know - just looks like a black roof. And bright on the inside - especially noticeable with a black/dark interior.
I think the prices of 991s are a telling commentary on the 992. If everyone thought that the 992 was a huge improvement over the 991, the market would be flooded with 991s that people would be dumping in order to buy 992s. If the 991 prices are increasing, that means that lots of people prefer the 991 to the 992.
@Denny Swift , I'm not convinced that the data I have bears out that theory. 992 pricing seems similar to 2019 991.2 pricing, which you wouldn't expect if "lots of people prefer the 991 to the 992". I think the most likely cause that the decreased invantory has pushed prices up.
2019 991.2 prices 2020-2021 992 prices
Last edited by Benjamin L; 01-29-2021 at 01:54 PM.
“Decreased inventory?” Decreased inventory means demand > supply. When a new model comes out, if the demand for the new model is enough to make people dump the old version, inventory will jump on the old version and prices will drop. It’s all supply and demand. If there truly is decrease inventory of the 991, people obviously are not trading them for the 992. The only other explanation for reduced inventory would be if people are suddenly crashing their 991s or they are being taken out of the market through alien abductions 😊.
@Denny Swift If anything the 2020 992s seem to be holding their value even better than 2019 991.2s. Granted this data could still be skewed by some residual new 2020 992s. We'll have a better idea in a year's time when there are more used 992s on the market. In the below graphs you can see that the median 991.2 price has dropped significantly more than the median 2020 992. Again I could be wrong about this conclusion if there were a gullet of new 2020 992s, but the increasing millage curves suggest otherwise. 2020 992 Pricing 2019 991.2 C, C4, CS, and C4S Pricing
Last edited by Benjamin L; 01-29-2021 at 02:16 PM.
@Denny Swift Accross the used car industry, invantory is down, so prices have been uncharactoristly strong. A way to explain this decreased invantory generally is that people are driving less and holding onto their cars longer, 991s included. If anything, how well 992s have sold is a testamate to how good it is. Just because the 992s are fantastic cars doesn't mean that our 991s are any less amazing than they've always been
@Denny Swift Accross the used car industry, invantory is down, so prices have been uncharactoristly strong. A way to explain this decreased invantory generally is that people are driving less and holding onto their cars longer, 991s included. If anything, how well 992s have sold is a testamate to how good it is. Just because the 992s are fantastic cars doesn't mean that our 991s are any less amazing than they've always been
Apologies Calvin, but I am having trouble drawing valid comparisons and conclusions from these charts. Please help me understand. The 2020 992 median price is flat at $125K from April 2019 to date, while the 2019 991.2 has dropped from $110K to $100K over that time? Is this correct? And what conclusions can we draw from this? Seems to me to be too many variables for a valid comparison? Does this include a mix or new and used cars advertised/sold?
Last edited by PAPorscheGuy; 01-29-2021 at 02:49 PM.
@PAPorscheGuy No need to apologize - I think you've confused the charts. The top screenshot is 2020 992s and the bottom is 2019 C, C4, CS, C4Ss. The various lines represent different percentiles. The median price of the 992s went from ~$139k to ~$134k with some nontrivially used cars coming on the market, meanwhile the 991.2s went from $125k to $117k a larger drop. Sure most of the 992s are new and most of the 991.2s are used, but still this still cuts against @Denny Swift 's idea that "If the 991 prices are increasing, that means that lots of people prefer the 991 to the 992." Comparing 2019 991.2s to 2020 992s is the closest I could get to a fair comparison. That said, you're certainly right that there are important variables that have yet to be sorted out (namely new vs used).
@PAPorscheGuy No need to apologize - I think you've confused the charts. The top screenshot is 2020 992s and the bottom is 2019 C, C4, CS, C4Ss. The various lines represent different percentiles. The median price of the 992s went from ~$139k to ~$134k with some nontrivially used cars coming on the market, meanwhile the 991.2s went from $125k to $117k a larger drop. Sure most of the 992s are new and most of the 991.2s are used, but still this still cuts against @Denny Swift 's idea that "If the 991 prices are increasing, that means that lots of people prefer the 991 to the 992." Comparing 2019 991.2s to 2020 992s is the closest I could get to a fair comparison. That said, you're certainly right that there are important variables that have yet to be sorted out (namely new vs used).
@bdlcalvin Thank you for the explanation! Very interesting. I need to start reading Rennlist on my desktop versus my phone!
BTW, I believe the absolute $ difference between same spec 991 and 992 also helps explain the perception that there is 991 demand and inventory. I am a great anecdotal example. Yes, I could have purchased a new 992, but chose to purchase a low-mile 2019 991. Yes, I happen to prefer the 991, but it also looks attractive from a value perspective. I required MT, tough used car spec, but even so the price gap was high in-part due to the effective price increase for the same spec. MSRP of $140K+ for my spec new 2021 992 versus $126K for my 2019 991.2 C2S MT, plus of course I realized additional savings due to mileage and depreciation (-15%).
Last edited by PAPorscheGuy; 01-29-2021 at 03:41 PM.
@PAPorscheGuy In my opinion all of the 991.1, 991.2, and 992 are fantastic cars and I feel very blessed to be able to drive my 991.1 C4S every day. If anything, I feel bad for the folks who want to buy in but the weird pricing lately has kept them out of a car.
Congrats on your 2019 991.2 C2S MT! If it's the one in your picture, it's a beaut!!
@PAPorscheGuy In my opinion all of the 991.1, 991.2, and 992 are fantastic cars and I feel very blessed to be able to drive my 991.1 C4S every day. If anything, I feel bad for the folks who want to buy in but the weird pricing lately has kept them out of a car.
Congrats on your 2019 991.2 C2S MT! If it's the one in your picture, it's a beaut!!
@benjaminL Perhaps I could have purchased mine for $5K less months ago, but this is noise over the life of the car - I plan to keep mine! I drove an ‘84 triple-black in the 80s and have missed it ever since. 30 years and 3 kids later I was ready. I absolutely love my car, and feel blessed that I found it. I, like you wish/want this for others. The 911 is so special in so many ways. Yes, it’s got good specs and driving characteristics, but if that’s all a prospective buyer sees then they are really missing the point and it may not be the car for them. In my mind it’s a unique work-of-art that can not be directly compared to anything else. I would not dream of trading this for bmw, merc, or even cayman - ever. For me, there is no comparison - to anything else other than perhaps another 911
@PAPorscheGuy In my opinion all of the 991.1, 991.2, and 992 are fantastic cars and I feel very blessed to be able to drive my 991.1 C4S every day. If anything, I feel bad for the folks who want to buy in but the weird pricing lately has kept them out of a car.
Congrats on your 2019 991.2 C2S MT! If it's the one in your picture, it's a beaut!!
I feel super blessed I found a 991.1 C2S for 50k, flat haha.
01-28-2021, 09:53 PM
