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I have a 17 4S, PDK I did the stage 1 93 yesterday. Put about 150 miles on it since and so far its not an Oh **** moment by any means. The power is linear and is strong through the range but Its really hard to quantify in this car since its a very quick car stock. Were getting into difficult territory here with cars that exceed the speed limits in seconds to begin with. Im not sure how much more pull I need in this car but will drive this stage 1 for a while then try the stage 2. Only problem is Im with the car for a week then away from it for 2 so it becomes difficult to compare when I come back. Im also comparing it to my 4.0 Turbo Panamera that is a major beast with 20 lbs of boost stock and tons of pull.
thanks for the details. Appreciate it. I’ve gleaned from these threads that the guys with S cars don’t realize as much improvement as the guys with base cars (me). Guess it’s a better value equation for me then. Anyone else chime in here?
Sorry all to hijack this thread but I have no thread starter rights yet. Frustrating. Anyone know how and when one gets that?
It was a chilly Halloween morning, and I had taken the week off to burn some vacation time... I had just woken up, took the LargePuppy out for his morning walk, and brewed some coffee.... I was scratching my head thinking... what should I do today? Then it came to me, I decided to drive over to Town Porsche and buy a 911 because that seemed to be the most irresponsible thing I could do without landing up in prison. I roamed around the showroom a bit, ignoring help from the sales associates, but getting all the stares.... because who in the right mind roams around a Porsche showroom with a golden retriever... finally, a sales associate, John, came up to me and said 'He'd look really cute in that one!", pointing to what turned out to be @zojirushi 's previous vehicle fresh off CPO. John was right, the LargePuppy and I would look good in that night blue 911! I worked out the numbers with him, handed him the keys to my tradein... and the LargePuppy and I sloooowly pulled out... slooooowllly.... not because I was trying to be careful, nope... irresponsibility was the SAT word of the day! I pulled out sloooooooowllly.... because 370hp is kinda slow considering what we had just traded in... oh well, 911, right?
Fast forward a month later, I came across the Cobb Access Port, and they had just released version 1.02.... I had to have it! I placed an order with Cobb, got my ECU out, sent it over, they flashed it, sent it back, UPS lost it before they could deliver it, then found it, then delivered it.... I had my Cobb Tune finally! Ignoring the fact that it was cold outside, I reinstalled my ECU, plugged in the Cobb, and flashed Stage 2 ..... Magic occurred! Slowly, (not Slooooowwwwwwly) I got my car up to operating temperature, placed a towel on the passenger seat for the LargePuppy, and made my way over to the NJ turnpike. Yahhhhhooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! Now we're being properly irresponsible!
The car transformed from a vehicle that would allow the local dentist to get to his office 1 min quicker, to something that was made to break various traffic laws across 3 states by lunch time. But all was not right, I too had the stumbling bumbling PDK issue. It was not till version 1.06 that this was resolved, I'll save you the details, just note that it was resolved and I'm very happy.
So how is it? I do majority of my driving on the highways.... stragglers in the left lane no longer bother me, I simply mash the go fast and jump past them while getting annoyed looks and the more than occasional middle finger in my rear view... Traffic light racing? Well I am rather irresponsible, but I don't have a desire to get pulled over... I was still hurting from the most recent ticket I got in my F80, and have since put an end to goading the local traffic patrolmen into pulling me over.... what about bogeys on my 6? I don't know tbh.... they usually try to ride my rear, but the combination of enhanced power, nimbleness, and relatively smaller footprint allow me to almost always loose them in traffic There's an inherent silly feeling that overcomes you as you cut through traffic that'd normally bog other folks down.
It's fun, it's very very fun... its exceptionally smooth with version 1.06, and you will be very happy with your purchase. Of all the purchases I've made related to cars in past years, very few have provided the utter joy that the Cobb tune, and then later on the Soul Cats / Exhaust have provided. The way the vehicle drives with the tune... this is how I imagined a 911 to behave when I first fell in love with one at the ripe old age of 11.
Originally Posted by Robdokwon
But please describe the power, delivery and feel over stock with some creative writing. I assume what you said already. I’m looking for some basic journalism here, first hand accounts of what numbers and stats actually feel like. Impressions, etc. can’t believe I have to spell this out ... for example, passing on the highway, dragging from a light, getting away from an *** in a WRX on your six, etc. talk to me people. Real world stuff please.
In the same way that Photoshop is a platform for photo editing, Cobb AP is a platform for tuning.
Both have A LOT of capability when used fully. Not everyone is going to need the full capabilities.
The preset filters in Photoshop are good for 70% of the population; similar perspective for the OTS maps for any platform (Cobb, APR, etc).
Those who know and want to go crazy, have the ability to do so. Those who just want something a little extra are still kept in mind.
Puppy - nice write-up! Did you skip Stage 1 altogether or have you experimented with that yet? I called Cobb last week and they told me over the phone not to use Stage 2 maps unless some other mods are done like filter and exhaust etc..and that Stage 1 is code-designed for a bone-stock 991.2. I'd love to know your impressions on Stage 1 feel. Otherwise, congrats on the car and thanks for the amusing answers to my questions. I totally know what you mean by darting easily through traffic - my stock base 991.2 does that already now - it's fantastic. I'm coming over recently from a 20,000 lb X5 with 20,000 hp, that apparently I realize now, couldn't get out of its own way. Hahaha.
MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION to ALL: Knowing all of what you know now, if you were given the choice to receive for free a 991.2 Base with a Cobb Stage 1 tune, or a 991.2 S without a tune, which would you all take? Just choose between the two please and again price is off the table - Zoltar is granting your wish. Boiled down question restated: Base with smaller higher tuned-boosted turbos or S with larger but non-tuned turbos. Let's hear it!
MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION to ALL: Knowing all of what you know now, if you were given the choice to receive for free a 991.2 Base with a Cobb Stage 1 tune, or a 991.2 S without a tune, which would you all take? Just choose between the two please and again price is off the table - Zoltar is granting your wish. Boiled down question restated: Base with smaller higher tuned-boosted turbos or S with larger but non-tuned turbos. Let's hear it!
The base turbos are smaller, therefore more responsive and faster spooling. Then the tune will up the power to at least S if not GTS levels. The base with a tune will be faster and more responsive than the S untuned.
I jumped straight to Stage 2... and ran it without the upgraded cats etc. for about 5-6 months prior to getting Soul goodies, no issues, no errors, no nothing... these vehicles are robust! As far as your question of free vehicle, I'd take the 991.2 S without tune for free, sell it, get the base 991.2, use the excess capital to get the additional goodies... and probably have a few extra shekels for a month's worth of gas money
Originally Posted by Robdokwon
Puppy - nice write-up! Did you skip Stage 1 altogether or have you experimented with that yet? I called Cobb last week and they told me over the phone not to use Stage 2 maps unless some other mods are done like filter and exhaust etc..and that Stage 1 is code-designed for a bone-stock 991.2. I'd love to know your impressions on Stage 1 feel. Otherwise, congrats on the car and thanks for the amusing answers to my questions. I totally know what you mean by darting easily through traffic - my stock base 991.2 does that already now - it's fantastic. I'm coming over recently from a 20,000 lb X5 with 20,000 hp, that apparently I realize now, couldn't get out of its own way. Hahaha.
MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION to ALL: Knowing all of what you know now, if you were given the choice to receive for free a 991.2 Base with a Cobb Stage 1 tune, or a 991.2 S without a tune, which would you all take? Just choose between the two please and again price is off the table - Zoltar is granting your wish. Boiled down question restated: Base with smaller higher tuned-boosted turbos or S with larger but non-tuned turbos. Let's hear it!
The base turbos are smaller, therefore more responsive and faster spooling. Then the tune will up the power to at least S if not GTS levels. The base with a tune will be faster and more responsive than the S untuned.
understood, but "own it", which would you take if you had to choose?
Base as well but the S has the nicer brakes and possibly other goodies.
good point about the brakes, but i think all you get is a slightly larger front rotor only with a six piston front caliper vs a four in the base. I don't know from experience, but all the PCA and tech folks I talk to say it's negligible, impossible to discern, even on track. I'm told that some Castrol SRF high temp brake fluid is all you need in a base carrera and you're good to go. And, that if your way into club-racing time as opposed to basic DE, then upgrading lines, pads, and possibly rotors may be warranted. But I was told flat-out by multiple service techs that for street, there is no perceivable diff in brake feel or stopping power between the S and Base. GT3, that's another deal.
To be fair, only the GTS cars with most of the major power bolt-on mods (headers, cats, exhaust, intercoolers) have run into this issue. It's certainly something to do with too much torque/power and the transmission can't seem to handle it with the current transmission calibrations. APR is only now developing a tune for a GTS and without all the bolt-on mods.
Originally Posted by PTS-BRG
I dont drag my car on the track. My testing is all done on normal straight roadways. I couldn't break them free on the stock pirellis, the winter Alpin's or the summer pilot super sport 4S.
911.: You are again mistaken. And again APR is way behind the curve because they do not even have a GTS OTS map, only Carrera maps. As Spdracerut stated, the only people having issues with shifting from 3-4th are the GTS cars and primarily the AWD versions as far as I can tell. Cobb made the OTS maps for the GTS much less aggressive in order to avoid this from happening. My pro tune, which produces far more hp/tq than any OTS map, is based on the latest neutered maps and does not have any shift issues any longer. It also is less aggressive than the pro tune based on the original maps, so it isnt just torque.
spdracerut: "It's certainly something to do with too much torque/power and the transmission can't seem to handle it with the current transmission calibrations."
There are PDK cars that are not having any problems and able to handle much higher torque numbers. The Turbo S has the same PDK and it isnt having any issues and is also AWD. Everyone seems to think that it is a PDK calibration issue and maybe it is. I wish someone would figure it out..
Gotcha. I wasnt aware the PDK issue was limited to the GTS turbos. We shall see what APR does with their GTS tune. Overall I like their approach at making everything work in sequence. And as vecker performance alluded to earlier, it seems like the parameters are easily met on the GTS models but their tuner is able to increase those (clamping forces of the clutch?, ect) values to allow for no 3rd/4th gear issues.
It's not limited to GTS... I have a base and encountered the same issue. My discussions with Cobb indicate that it's generally focused on the GTS, but they have seen even a few base and S's that have the same issue... fwiw, the base and S's did dyno a bit higher than their normal counterparts
Originally Posted by 911.
Gotcha. I wasnt aware the PDK issue was limited to the GTS turbos. We shall see what APR does with their GTS tune. Overall I like their approach at making everything work in sequence. And as vecker performance alluded to earlier, it seems like the parameters are easily met on the GTS models but their tuner is able to increase those (clamping forces of the clutch?, ect) values to allow for no 3rd/4th gear issues.
good point about the brakes, but i think all you get is a slightly larger front rotor only with a six piston front caliper vs a four in the base. I don't know from experience, but all the PCA and tech folks I talk to say it's negligible, impossible to discern, even on track. I'm told that some Castrol SRF high temp brake fluid is all you need in a base carrera and you're good to go. And, that if your way into club-racing time as opposed to basic DE, then upgrading lines, pads, and possibly rotors may be warranted. But I was told flat-out by multiple service techs that for street, there is no perceivable diff in brake feel or stopping power between the S and Base. GT3, that's another deal.
For street use, the base brakes are just fine. For serious track use, especially with a tuned car with more power.... I'm in the camp of you can never have too big of brakes. Having the brakes fade out on you and almost leaving a brown stain will change perspective on things.
02-21-2020, 12:46 PM
..... Magic occurred! Slowly, (not Slooooowwwwwwly) I got my car up to operating temperature, placed a towel on the passenger seat for the LargePuppy, and made my way over to the NJ turnpike. Yahhhhhooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! Now we're being properly irresponsible!
