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I was running with a GT3 RS on Hankook Ventus F200 tires sized 300/680R19 front and 320/710R19 rear, and he was just wicked quick - I couldn't get away from him in the twisties at VIR. I'm going to research this more, but has anybody tried this tire combo? He was on Forgeline 19" wheels, but the fronts had to be at least 11" width, so somebody did some research to make that fit.
Yes a lot of the guys run these down here in FL. They are little faster and much more consistent than the Hoosiers for sure. They are cheaper than the Pirelli DH slick tire and similarly price to the Hossier but far superior. From talking to the guys out there they are a little slower than the Pirelli's but not by much. You should check with the GT3 forum. A lot of guys run these. The only issue if i remember correctly is that you had to run 250's fronts or jump to 300's at which point it would rub at the front.
If you need some tire sources send me a PM and i'll send you a few guys that sale slicks
Great time running with NY Metro PCA this past weekend. They offered BUCKETS of seat time! 6 x25 minute sessions PER DAY! Ran with their black run group so plenty of fast drivers and mean machines including but not limited to a barrage of cup cars and a Huracan Super Trofeo Evo which seemingly leap-frogged corners from me. Not much left with the Ferrodo 3.12's up front but still put up a bunch of 1:22's and a few 1:21's on the remnants of the Pilot Sport 4S street tires. I ran with my home chapter PCA Potomac 2 weeks ago but yearned for a little more (I had an instructor all weekend). This last weekend was perfect in that I was able to simply end the season driving.
Sold the GT3 track car just wasnt going enough to justify keeping it.
I do have one (perhaps last) upcoming track day at Thermal Club and plan to bring the .1 Turbo S. I have two sets of tires which is my question here: PS4S or r888r?
The r888r are used for airstrip/drag racing and PS4S for street.
What would you use for one track day?
Suspension is stock. I maxed front neg camber at -1.6. Rear i put at about -1.5. Too much power...will be dialing down some. Brakes are stock ceramics with SRF fluid.
Sold the GT3 track car just wasnt going enough to justify keeping it.
I do have one (perhaps last) upcoming track day at Thermal Club and plan to bring the .1 Turbo S. I have two sets of tires which is my question here: PS4S or r888r?
The r888r are used for airstrip/drag racing and PS4S for street.
What would you use for one track day?
Suspension is stock. I maxed front neg camber at -1.6. Rear i put at about -1.5. Too much power...will be dialing down some. Brakes are stock ceramics with SRF fluid.
Got myself to post some information about my setup..
2014 Turbo steel brakes, mileage about 10K miles. Car is used for Time attack, track days and hillclimb 75%- 25% street usage.
Engine: By Design Stage 4, which includes 68mm VTGs, Kline inconel full exhaust and headers, Large intercoolers, COBB.. Dealing with Sam has been a real pleasure, will always find a way to overdeliver on promises.
Chassis: Started with Tarrett "cup" control arms, some hard bushings, spacers for wider track and Eibach lowering springs. Car handled fantastic.
Changed to Manthey 991 GT3R 3 way race suspension customized valving and springs for 991 turbo with remote reservoirs, front and rear camber plates and strut mounts.
Wheels 19" OZ Forgiata front 9x19 ET 48, Rear 12x19 ET 47, had to remove the brake dust protective parts and rear lower control arm had some rubbing. Picture below was just with Eibach lowering springs. Ride height changed later on.
Tires on 19" Hoosier 265 front 325 rear
Tires on stock 20" wheels: since day 1 threw the P Zeros and always used Trofeo R
Rollcage Heigo, fantastic. Brake pads Endless MX72 or 991 GT3. Castrol SRF brake oil. Both pads work great, no fading whatsoever, Endless much better bite.
What I like: Stock suspension with lowering springs, solid strut mounts and camber plates, and Tarrett control arms. Easy to drive on the road and handles like a dream. 991 GT3R race suspension can be rough on bad roads and still trying to sort out the optimal compression and rebound adjustments with the help of Manthey.
Engine-wise it pulls very strong, the power on tap is actually violent for the track, the sound of the Inconel Kline is outstanding..
I mostly use it on 91 equivalent US fuel and high temperatures (90F +), so keeping IATs in check is a real challenge. Street and rolling race users will never feel an issue, for Hillclimb, time attack and several lap races or full throttle, there is a very clear deterioration of IATs starting from the second lap on a 4 mile fast course. First lap its wonderful, from 30-165mph on the straight it pulls very strong, a lap later intercoolers heat soak and timing starts being pulled even on race fuel, performance drops by 20+ %.
Further fine tuning wok on the maps with the wonderful support of Sam is underway, he has been really patient, I am not the easiest customer!! Finding the right combination of boost, timing and IATs in harsh weather and fuel conditions is quite challenging. Methanol would solve most of these problems but I am not there yet.
Testing with stock intercoolers will take place at some point soon. For high speed and 1 mile runs, these large ICs are really good, for race track environment we seem to see heat dissipation becoming an issue.. More on this to come.
Stock offset becomes more apparent when going low and aggressive camber, works great though with the 19x12 ET 48 wheels.
Alignment is perfect for Trofeos, very even wear, can take more camber.
which intercoolers are you currently using?
I choose the Tial ones with the printed end caps etc...they have much less mass than most of the other aftermarket ‘large’ intercoolers so I choose them with doing some HPDE days in mind with my car and figured the less total mass would disapate heat quicker than the other larger mass big intercoolers
thanks for posting your suspension setup, I grew to hate adjustable coilovers from my days tracking corvettes precisely because I felt like I was endlessly trying to fine tune and adjust them instead of just enjoying the track, I eventually just went back to the stiffer track leaf spring unique to corvettes, bilsteins, and stiffer sway bars and loved it again.
but you stock setup with the Tarret and solid mounts sounds like a dream, after my engine is done we’ll probably be doing that
i get what you mean about the power, upgraded VTG’s is about as big as I’d want to go if regularly tracking...I’m going to get mine to the track eventually and just a few times a year, but I can’t even imagine what it’s going to be like trying to modulate 1000 whp between turns 3 and 5 at Willow Springs and guys won’t even have time to waive me by on the front straight after turn 9 😂😂😂
my car is mostly set up to beat up on guys in roll races after cars and coffee and to lift off the peddle at 179 mph in half mile airstrip runs lol
Last edited by Steven31371; 11-11-2020 at 04:32 PM.
We can build monster power but high performance charge cooling for tracked cars remains the weak link. Intercoolers heat soak and then they're done. Power is reduced to save the engine. Now what?
Direct methanol injection and intercooler sprayers are really the only solutions but I haven't seen any complete and thoroughly tested systems offered for the Turbo. Are there any? I think some were trying to retrofit the GT2RS system a while back.
We can build monster power but high performance charge cooling for tracked cars remains the weak link. Intercoolers heat soak and then they're done. Power is reduced to save the engine. Now what?
Direct methanol injection and intercooler sprayers are really the only solutions but I haven't seen any complete and thoroughly tested systems offered for the Turbo. Are there any? I think some were trying to retrofit the GT2RS system a while back.
Sam had intercoolers sprayers on his Pikes Peak build and aren’t intercooler sprayers stock on the GT2 RS? (Never mind, misread you post lol)
As for methanol, there are some well sorted systems out there though not many direct injection ones, I’m about to get Sam’s new intake manifold that’s cut from aluminum and then we will direct inject meth, he’s done several and so far so good
Last edited by Steven31371; 11-11-2020 at 07:55 PM.
As for methanol, there are some well sorted systems out there though not many direct injection ones, I’m about to get Sam’s new intake manifold that’s cut from aluminum and then we will direct inject meth, he’s done several and so far so good
I bought parts and pieced together an Aquamist system that I plumbed into the intake just ahead of the throttle body almost 20 years ago. I thought there might be a documented and fully tested system offered that integrates well and is basically plug and play, complete with foolproof safeguards, and available for different power levels.
We can build monster power but high performance charge cooling for tracked cars remains the weak link. Intercoolers heat soak and then they're done. Power is reduced to save the engine. Now what?
Direct methanol injection and intercooler sprayers are really the only solutions but I haven't seen any complete and thoroughly tested systems offered for the Turbo. Are there any? I think some were trying to retrofit the GT2RS system a while back.
Yup, even the larger after market intercoolers are using rated 800hp cores together. I'm going with a custom A2L setup for my TTS for 1200whp even though it's not for a circuit made setup.
That's a lot of power Payam! Hard to find a solid solution for cooling. On hot summer days, I find it difficult to keep the power consistent which just sucks. Here in the Mid-Atlantic, there's mega humidity too. This past weekend, the power was apparent simply with 70 degree IAT's. I suppose we can always get creative and borrow a page from the 2RS Clubsport and change the Intercooler mounting and maybe add a fan?
That's a lot of power Payam! Hard to find a solid solution for cooling. On hot summer days, I find it difficult to keep the power consistent which just sucks. Here in the Mid-Atlantic, there's mega humidity too. This past weekend, the power was apparent simply with 70 degree IAT's. I suppose we can always get creative and borrow a page from the 2RS Clubsport and change the Intercooler mounting and maybe add a fan?
To keep things cheap and simple, the best option is chemical cooling. A single little nozzle in the Y pipe running water only, through a relay and hobbs switch activated at 8psi. You'd be able to run that on any current tune you have without having to do any modifications.
I can set you up if you're interested, we have universal kits like that that don't need a JB4 that works like a simple on and off switch. Universal kit
You'd get our 2 gallon stealth tank with Aquatec pump, solenoid, BM5 nozzle, hobbs switch, wiring, tubing, with hardware and fittings all for about $500
Most cooling issues at the track really start after we start pushing the engine with tunes etc. There is ton's off power that can be generated by the stock VGT's but unfortunately as we add more boost, increase timing, etc. heat just builds up. Its a vicious cycle, EGT's go up, IAT's go up, timing gets pulled etc. I would say 99% of aftermarket intercoolers out there have been designed really focused in increasing cooling capacity over short periods of time. Which works really well for drag racing, or street, but really not meant for the constant track abuse. Also keep in mind, that more than 650 (+/-) WHP on track you will start having clutch issues, specially if you are running the typical tunes which have tons of torque build into them. At the end its really down to a balancing act between all of the component you are having. Buying a bunch of fancy equipment that doesn't really fit your needs will end up being a waste of money.
So its really important to set proper goals. For example, if you are running Time Trials or Time Attacks, you can work around the cooling issues much better than if you are looking into doing hillclimb or sprint races, and things will get even more complicated if you are looking into doing enduros. Completely different setup for each.
In my personal experience, the car runs great on track up to stage 2 with very little heat issues. Its really thereafter as we start pushing the little VGT's and everything else. Depending how deep you want to go but solutions range from
Proper tune (this is one of the most important parts)
Intercoolers
PWR makes good cores. They make the ones for the 2RS Clubsport, and are actually not that expensive
Water Mister system (works really well)
Meth Injection (works really well)
Non VGT Turbo (This will take care of a lot of the heat issues, but expensive proposition)
Kong, the Clubsport setup its great but requires serious changes on the rear. I think they would have solve most of their heat issues by using non VGT turbos but Porsche kept the stock engine, which meant they had to really think outside the box on cooling. PWR makes these as well, they are actually pretty thin with much larger surface area. Its a cool setup for sure.
To keep things cheap and simple, the best option is chemical cooling. A single little nozzle in the Y pipe running water only, through a relay and hobbs switch activated at 8psi. You'd be able to run that on any current tune you have without having to do any modifications.
I can set you up if you're interested, we have universal kits like that that don't need a JB4 that works like a simple on and off switch. Universal kit
You'd get our 2 gallon stealth tank with Aquatec pump, solenoid, BM5 nozzle, hobbs switch, wiring, tubing, with hardware and fittings all for about $500
-Payam
Thanks for your note Payam - if I cross that bridge in the future, it's an interesting idea to assist with cooling.
Originally Posted by Pdtp#16
Most cooling issues at the track really start after we start pushing the engine with tunes etc. There is ton's off power that can be generated by the stock VGT's but unfortunately as we add more boost, increase timing, etc. heat just builds up. Its a vicious cycle, EGT's go up, IAT's go up, timing gets pulled etc. I would say 99% of aftermarket intercoolers out there have been designed really focused in increasing cooling capacity over short periods of time. Which works really well for drag racing, or street, but really not meant for the constant track abuse. Also keep in mind, that more than 650 (+/-) WHP on track you will start having clutch issues, specially if you are running the typical tunes which have tons of torque build into them. At the end its really down to a balancing act between all of the component you are having. Buying a bunch of fancy equipment that doesn't really fit your needs will end up being a waste of money.
So its really important to set proper goals. For example, if you are running Time Trials or Time Attacks, you can work around the cooling issues much better than if you are looking into doing hillclimb or sprint races, and things will get even more complicated if you are looking into doing enduros. Completely different setup for each.
In my personal experience, the car runs great on track up to stage 2 with very little heat issues. Its really thereafter as we start pushing the little VGT's and everything else. Depending how deep you want to go but solutions range from
Proper tune (this is one of the most important parts)
Intercoolers
PWR makes good cores. They make the ones for the 2RS Clubsport, and are actually not that expensive
Water Mister system (works really well)
Meth Injection (works really well)
Non VGT Turbo (This will take care of a lot of the heat issues, but expensive proposition)
Kong, the Clubsport setup its great but requires serious changes on the rear. I think they would have solve most of their heat issues by using non VGT turbos but Porsche kept the stock engine, which meant they had to really think outside the box on cooling. PWR makes these as well, they are actually pretty thin with much larger surface area. Its a cool setup for sure.
I hear you on the tune as the more power you generate, the more heat that comes with it. It was interesting to see the Clubsport when I was at up TPC.. the engineering that goes into a factory race car is completely different than aftermarket tuner modifications. It makes you appreciate the R&D aspects. You make an interesting point about tunes and torque in that the 2RS will make a whopping 700hp but the same 550tq as a Turbo. At this point, I think I'm about done with adding power as with my "constipated cats", i was turning in faster lap times being limited to 14 psi (a sign that I'm progressing as a driver I suppose!). I'm also not experienced enough to wrangle the kind of horsepower you, Jean, and Randy play with.
Regarding the VTG's, I'm trying to understand why non VTG's would solve the heat issues?
Thanks for your note Payam - if I cross that bridge in the future, it's an interesting idea to assist with cooling.
I hear you on the tune as the more power you generate, the more heat that comes with it. It was interesting to see the Clubsport when I was at up TPC.. the engineering that goes into a factory race car is completely different than aftermarket tuner modifications. It makes you appreciate the R&D aspects. You make an interesting point about tunes and torque in that the 2RS will make a whopping 700hp but the same 550tq as a Turbo. At this point, I think I'm about done with adding power as with my "constipated cats", i was turning in faster lap times being limited to 14 psi (a sign that I'm progressing as a driver I suppose!). I'm also not experienced enough to wrangle the kind of horsepower you, Jean, and Randy play with.
Regarding the VTG's, I'm trying to understand why non VTG's would solve the heat issues?
When I told Sam I would likely do some track events from time to time he told me I would have less heat issues, especially as we add big power later.
Would have to get more clarification from him but as o understood of those VTG’s just generate a lot more heat than a bigger Turbo like the Tial XR....they have to work harder to push the same amount of air
Thanks for your note Payam - if I cross that bridge in the future, it's an interesting idea to assist with cooling.
I hear you on the tune as the more power you generate, the more heat that comes with it. It was interesting to see the Clubsport when I was at up TPC.. the engineering that goes into a factory race car is completely different than aftermarket tuner modifications. It makes you appreciate the R&D aspects. You make an interesting point about tunes and torque in that the 2RS will make a whopping 700hp but the same 550tq as a Turbo. At this point, I think I'm about done with adding power as with my "constipated cats", i was turning in faster lap times being limited to 14 psi (a sign that I'm progressing as a driver I suppose!). I'm also not experienced enough to wrangle the kind of horsepower you, Jean, and Randy play with.
Regarding the VTG's, I'm trying to understand why non VTG's would solve the heat issues?
The problem with turbochargers is that big turbos do not work well at slow engine speeds, while small turbos are fast to spool but run out of steam pretty quick. A turbocharger equipped with Variable Turbine Geometry has little movable vanes which can direct exhaust flow onto the turbine blades. The angle of the vanes vary throughout the engine RPM range to optimizing the turbine behavior. This essentially allowed Porsche to generate tons of power, fixed low end turbo lag / boost and keep a fairly small turbo. As we start increasing the boost, the turbos will start spooling quicker thus the reason that we suddenly start generating really high torque at low RPM ranges. Your stock 991.1 Turbo has smaller turbos than a 2RS. Yet on stage 3 you can push these little guys close to the same HP as the 2RS. Therefore we start overheating them on track use. So the next step is to go to a larger VTG. This works well like you see in a stock 2RS. With that said, I have seen folks pushing up to 750WHP on those same turbos. So similarly to pushing the stock turbos too hard the same thing will happen then. This is where a non vtg turbo will really be helpful. Specially if one intends to use it for track use whereby low RPM turbo lag is not really important.
In summary, we can push these car's engine pretty hard and will perform extremely well at the drag strip and the street. For track use, you don't want to push the turbos as hard as you will end up actually loosing more power throughout the session etc. Again, it all comes down to goals. Like you very well said, your fastest time was actually done while your car was having boost issues. These cars are really fast already, dealing with their weight, handling and driving technique will yield you a lot more lap time than engine performance. I should remind my self of this every time i add something new As you start getting faster you will get hungrier for speed so its unavoidable!
BTW thanks for keeping posting videos of the progress. Its always exiting seeing folks track these cars and have as much fun as we all do. Now you need to add some good tire combo and keep ripping it out there. I bet you will be in the 19's just by changing tires.
11-09-2020, 02:23 PM
just wasnt going enough to justify keeping it. 
Finding the right combination of boost, timing and IATs in harsh weather and fuel conditions is quite challenging. Methanol would solve most of these problems but I am not there yet.
As you start getting faster you will get hungrier for speed so its unavoidable!