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Great to see Pdtp#16 and that amazing GT2RSx at Sebring. First time at the track, so still learning a lot, but I managed to get a 2:22 done with a lot of traffic. Not bad for 2 days, but his 2:14 time is smoking fast. I'll be back next year, for sure. It's very different from VIR: more full throttle sweepers, shorter straights, and managing/planning that bumpy concrete is a challenge unto itself. Turns 1 and 17 are fairly nuts - but Bishop's Bend is a lot to learn in one weekend, too. They put me in the intermediate run group because it's my first time here, and I eventually blistered those poor souls. I will be looking forward to a faster run group next time I'm back here. Also, I've never been at a PCA event that had more Porshe's. I estimate 80% of the cars were Porsche, and half of those were 991 GT3 or GT3 RS.
(Notice all those Nitrogen tanks in the background, left over from the IMSA Encore race the previous weekend. This is a serious track, incredible history and pedigre.)
It was wild the amount of 3rs's out there. And pretty much all of them where on slicks. A lot of good drivers out there. Can't wait to try VIR next summer. You should come for the 48hr. I'm doing the two days prior with David Murray and then the couple of sessions they have during the main event. Its an awesome event with great porches. I'm thinking about asking the head coach at limerock to come down as well. Both Orbit and TPC Racing will be there too.
Pdtp#16 car looks awesome. Definitely looks the biz. Is that a full cup conversion? And great driving too.
Thank you. Mike at TPC did a great job building the car. Essentially a replica of his Optima car. Only differences is that he went with 3RS front parts I did all cup parts. On the rear I will be switching to a cup or a GT2 clubsport wing and decklid. This will help balance the front a bit more. My main focus now is getting more cool air onto the breaks, and into the intercoolers and engine bay. Need to get consumables a bit down. My front pads are lasting me 2 full days (10 sessions). Sebring is brutal on breaks, but the combination of a heavy car and very little cooling exacerbates the issues. similarly with the tires. I’m only getting 15 sessions on the trofeo’s 10 sessions on Hoosiers. Going to try Cup 2’s next.
Additionally I’m looking forward to working with a coach and try to get consistency and a little faster times.
OK, here's a question: What does everybody look for in a pro coach?
I've had Tom Long coach me for a day, and Peter Krause has gone over my data in the past, too. As you get faster, having a coach in the car seems to be less helpful, unless it's in the driver's seat. It's that way for me anyway. Riding with Randy Pobst in my car was incredibly helpful, but that was for 10 minutes of him showing me what he does at VIR. Riding along with Tom Long also helped a lot to show me where I was slow and what the car is capable of beyond what I'm getting from it, but it seems to wear off after a while.
How does everybody pick a coach, and how do you get the most benefit from them? Who's planning to get more pro coaching next year?
OK, here's a question: What does everybody look for in a pro coach?
I've had Tom Long coach me for a day, and Peter Krause has gone over my data in the past, too. As you get faster, having a coach in the car seems to be less helpful, unless it's in the driver's seat. It's that way for me anyway. Riding with Randy Pobst in my car was incredibly helpful, but that was for 10 minutes of him showing me what he does at VIR. Riding along with Tom Long also helped a lot to show me where I was slow and what the car is capable of beyond what I'm getting from it, but it seems to wear off after a while.
How does everybody pick a coach, and how do you get the most benefit from them? Who's planning to get more pro coaching next year?
Nice topic Randy and great questions.. in my opinion the biggest benefit you get is when you have a pro coach and a data engineer both coach you together, with a video data logger and full data available. I was lucky to have two of the best in the world, a winning Supercup driver who used to be a data geek, and probably what used to be the best supercup engineer as friends, and never have I improved faster in a shorter period of time.
You benefit most by giving your same car to the pro coach and then superimpose your data to his and analyze braking points, racing lines, where does he start accelerating and how strongly. A vbox vidéo or similar are great tools, expect to shave 1-2 seconds from your best time even on a track you know well.
Pro coach and engineer should also help you setup your car after he drives it.
Nice topic Randy and great questions.. in my opinion the biggest benefit you get is when you have a pro coach and a data engineer both coach you together, with a video data logger and full data available. I was lucky to have two of the best in the world, a winning Supercup driver who used to be a data geek, and probably what used to be the best supercup engineer as friends, and never have I improved faster in a shorter period of time.
You benefit most by giving your same car to the pro coach and then superimpose your data to his and analyze braking points, racing lines, where does he start accelerating and how strongly. A vbox vidéo or similar are great tools, expect to shave 1-2 seconds from your best time even on a track you know well.
Pro coach and engineer should also help you setup your car after he drives it.
Yes, I use the AIM Solo with Smartycam system for data/video. Getting all of these people at the same track at the same time is tricky. Especially if I can incorporate the suspension setup guy (Mike Levitas at TPC) on the same page. After Randy Pobst drove my car, we met with Mike at the track to discuss and write down some setting changes to make, but now I've still got to take my car 3 hours up to his shop to make the changes over the winter. On the US East coast, getting everybody together is really tough. Superimposing data with the pro is really the only way to do it.
Who else is using coaching, and how are you doing it?
Yes, I use the AIM Solo with Smartycam system for data/video. Getting all of these people at the same track at the same time is tricky. Especially if I can incorporate the suspension setup guy (Mike Levitas at TPC) on the same page. After Randy Pobst drove my car, we met with Mike at the track to discuss and write down some setting changes to make, but now I've still got to take my car 3 hours up to his shop to make the changes over the winter. On the US East coast, getting everybody together is really tough. Superimposing data with the pro is really the only way to do it.
Who else is using coaching, and how are you doing it?
while I had the opportunity to work with several coaches in the past, I never had the opportunity to work with them along the data and video capabilities that exist now a days. I can see how beneficial it could be to analyze the data specially if you can compare with side by side. Even better, if you could have the person setting up the cars right there and then.
since I didn’t have the access to good video and capabilities what helped me the most was
- sit on the passenger seat with the coach driving. First time I did this, it made me realize how much more grip the car could handle. Specially on higher speed stuff. Also did this whole working on setups as well. Helped me understand what he was looking for
- another exercise we did was a lead follow at high speeds. This in particular was helpful with a radical where it’s hard to get comfortable / trust that you will find more grip the faster you go as the aero kicks in.
Now that that I have data and video capabilities I’m looking forward to working with a coach again. I’ll probably do the first step above as well in addition to comparing his lap vs mine.
one thing that I did find crucial was to find a coach that has a driving style that you can relate too. I worked with a coach that was a former rally driver and another that was a open wheel driver and their approach to the track was very different. Found that trying to emulate the former rally driver was much more difficult.
I will update here some of my latest impressions, upgrades and results in respect to the 991.2TTS
Changed Eibachs for H&R - H&R sit way lower and firmer than Eibachs, better for track(not by much as I feel the need of real racing coilovers alrrady)
DSC v3 - I didn't feel a real improvement after install, also their last map (common with gt2rs, gt3rs etc) didn;t work for me, maybe I did something wrong.. I use it, but not impressed
Installed front LCAs - still wasnt able to get past -2.5 camber and decided to set the car @-2.5 for all corners.
Skipped installing rear toe monoballs as seems lowering the engine was needed and I was afraid of unpleasant noises in the long run.
Switched from Ferrodo 1.11 to PFC 08/11 - at the track I feel they are quite similar, but on the street the PFCs are better as they almost don't squeal
Hoosiers 265/335 - WOOOW what a difference compared to Cup2/Trofeo! Still have to find a better day and less trafic on my local track where I was able to equal my best lap with semi worn R7s and some traffic. I was at the level of GT2RS on TrofeoR, exactly the same time and 1s faster than Cup2 wide/Trofeo narrow (new both of them). On another track, suffering a lot from heat I was able to be .1s quicker than a GT2RS on Cup2Rs after 2 days of battle where each of us was winning increments of .1s over the other. My time here was also 1.3seconds lower than last year's best 245/305 TrofeoR and Cup2 N2 265/325 (same time Trofeo narrow and Cup2 wide), but the track this time was worse - hotter day and grip was lower somehow. Still 991.1cup car on fresh slicks was 3.1seconds faster and Lambo Performante on slicks even .2s faster than the cup car, seems this track is more in favor of lightweight, high grip and aero cars. Behind my car and Gt2RS at over 1second there were 991.1GT3RS Cup2R, AMG GTR dont remember the tires, 720S Spyder on oem tires, etc..
OZ SuperForgiatta - really love these wheels, light and strong. Now I regret not having the ***** to get 9.5 fronts with lower ET.
Water Spray - not working as it should, I will have to double check it
Future upgrades
Might do as-well the Do88 Inlets, guess will skip the Ypipe and TB as not as much of a restriction in my opinion. These and water spray working 100% should fight pretty well against the heat and deliver more power over the entire lap.
Another kind of upgrade for me might be a 720s with tune and maybe downpipes, some Girodisc&pads, wider wheels and hoosiers, senna seats. I would wait for the reveal of 765lt, but seems the 720s is a no brainer. 992TTS I might skip it, get the 720s till the 992 GT3RS or even GT2RS. Still planning to keep the 001.2 for at least 6 months, not sure afterwards. I feel these days the 720S is the car to have.... ok I said it...
I will update here some of my latest impressions, upgrades and results in respect to the 991.2TTS
Changed Eibachs for H&R - H&R sit way lower and firmer than Eibachs, better for track(not by much as I feel the need of real racing coilovers alrrady)
DSC v3 - I didn't feel a real improvement after install, also their last map (common with gt2rs, gt3rs etc) didn;t work for me, maybe I did something wrong.. I use it, but not impressed
Installed front LCAs - still wasnt able to get past -2.5 camber and decided to set the car @-2.5 for all corners.
Skipped installing rear toe monoballs as seems lowering the engine was needed and I was afraid of unpleasant noises in the long run.
Switched from Ferrodo 1.11 to PFC 08/11 - at the track I feel they are quite similar, but on the street the PFCs are better as they almost don't squeal
Hoosiers 265/335 - WOOOW what a difference compared to Cup2/Trofeo! Still have to find a better day and less trafic on my local track where I was able to equal my best lap with semi worn R7s and some traffic. I was at the level of GT2RS on TrofeoR, exactly the same time and 1s faster than Cup2 wide/Trofeo narrow (new both of them). On another track, suffering a lot from heat I was able to be .1s quicker than a GT2RS on Cup2Rs after 2 days of battle where each of us was winning increments of .1s over the other. My time here was also 1.3seconds lower than last year's best 245/305 TrofeoR and Cup2 N2 265/325 (same time Trofeo narrow and Cup2 wide), but the track this time was worse - hotter day and grip was lower somehow. Still 991.1cup car on fresh slicks was 3.1seconds faster and Lambo Performante on slicks even .2s faster than the cup car, seems this track is more in favor of lightweight, high grip and aero cars. Behind my car and Gt2RS at over 1second there were 991.1GT3RS Cup2R, AMG GTR dont remember the tires, 720S Spyder on oem tires, etc..
OZ SuperForgiatta - really love these wheels, light and strong. Now I regret not having the ***** to get 9.5 fronts with lower ET.
Water Spray - not working as it should, I will have to double check it
Future upgrades
Might do as-well the Do88 Inlets, guess will skip the Ypipe and TB as not as much of a restriction in my opinion. These and water spray working 100% should fight pretty well against the heat and deliver more power over the entire lap.
Another kind of upgrade for me might be a 720s with tune and maybe downpipes, some Girodisc&pads, wider wheels and hoosiers, senna seats. I would wait for the reveal of 765lt, but seems the 720s is a no brainer. 992TTS I might skip it, get the 720s till the 992 GT3RS or even GT2RS. Still planning to keep the 001.2 for at least 6 months, not sure afterwards. I feel these days the 720S is the car to have.... ok I said it...
great looking car!
Mind me asking, what tracks are you running? Also curious as to why you only used the TrofeoR’s in narrow configuration? How did they compare against the Cup2’s?
regarding the DSC, make sure you zero out the shocks. Since you are running lowering springs the shock will be compressed already. If you are thinking on using coil overs the Tractive setup the TPC sells works great with the DSC box and unbelievably quick on track. Best of all you can share Mike’s personal files on his car.
was able to run Sebring at night with Chin. Really cool and wild. Specially going through bishops with very little light or into 17 pitch black. Ran into some issues with vibration upfront most likely from the tires that where pretty shot by then. Ultimately got into a good rhythm and had some fun.
Pdtp#16 I have been thinking to do the tractive coilover list along with their LCA for wider track and rear monoball bushings. I haven't been able to find any reviews about the tractive setup. What were the most noticeable changes to you? How streetable is the set up? My car is mostly for the track but still have to drive it to and from
the track.
Pdtp#16 I have been thinking to do the tractive coilover list along with their LCA for wider track and rear monoball bushings. I haven't been able to find any reviews about the tractive setup. What were the most noticeable changes to you? How streetable is the set up? My car is mostly for the track but still have to drive it to and from
the track.
ArtF10,
I have gone through quite a bit of setups. Most of them due to me being inpatient and buying whatever sounded like the best. I ended up with a lot of parts that couldn’t get anyone to set them up right. Keep in mind that most shops try to set the turbo similarly to a GT3 or GT2. But the fact is that they have different suspension geometry specially in the back. Either way, when I sent my car to Mike we took all of the aftermarket control arms out and went back to Porsche parts with solid bushings /bearings. We added his wide track (essentially the same as a cup car) but allows you to run more camber while keeping the front track wider and not running into any issues with the front axels. The above coupled with the Tractive shocks and DSC box have made a car that it’s wicket fast on the track, yet a lot more subtle on the street than a 3RS. I also have both front and rear sway bars.
I can tell you that the car has really impressed the shop down here in FL, to the point that they are now focusing in learning more about the shocks and the DSC box. I’m no race pro, and I’m turning 2:14 laps at Sebring on street tires with tons of time left with someone who knew what they where doing.
the best thing of it has been being able to share setups with Mike. I can send him my files and he will tune for me based on my logs and also his car (both running same setup). Mike likes running his car a bit higher than what I have seen other shops do and tons of caster. I’m not having to run tons of camber I think I’m -2.5 and pretty square front to back.
only thing I regret is not going after the RTx model vs the RT. With the amount of track sessions I’m doing it would have been better to spend the extra $$.
ultimately the above has been by far the best mod yet on the car.
when I get back to FL I’ll try to post some data On how they are performing.
Mind me asking, what tracks are you running? Also curious as to why you only used the TrofeoR’s in narrow configuration? How did they compare against the Cup2’s?
regarding the DSC, make sure you zero out the shocks. Since you are running lowering springs the shock will be compressed already. If you are thinking on using coil overs the Tractive setup the TPC sells works great with the DSC box and unbelievably quick on track. Best of all you can share Mike’s personal files on his car.
was able to run Sebring at night with Chin. Really cool and wild. Specially going through bishops with very little light or into 17 pitch black. Ran into some issues with vibration upfront most likely from the tires that where pretty shot by then. Ultimately got into a good rhythm and had some fun.
TrofeoRs were available only in 245/305 at that time, now guess 255/315 or 265/315 can be done. Comparing TrofeoRs with Cup2 N2 fronts & M0 Rears (265/325) I can say that slighty more traction available from the rear tires (205 Trofeo are like 316mm and Cup2s are like 325mm, so not that much wider in reality) but..... 265s in the front make all the difference in the world, car is planted and understeering is gone, in my opinion the fronts are making the car so much more deisrable, and at the limit they are pretty equal or within .5seconds if that.. If there will be a combo of 265/315(325) TrofeoRs hmmm that would be really nice to try
Looking also to see if there will be some real slicks in 20" available as 620R is announced to have 19/20" slicks, maybe also Nankang AR-1 might worth a try at some point, but as far as cost/performance the Cup2 N2/M0 are unbeatable for me
As for the tracks I run mostly: MotorPark and Mures Ring in Romania, Serres in Greece, Hungaroring in Hungary (F1 track)
From time to time experiencing also: Dubai Autodrome, Yas Marina in Abu Dhabi, Nurburgring, Spa in Belgium etc..
From my memory, I have zero-ed the values of DSC, but will do some more research and maybe find Mike's file... I've seen a post of him somehere in the forum and downloaded that file, might have been wrong...
TrofeoRs were available only in 245/305 at that time, now guess 255/315 or 265/315 can be done. Comparing TrofeoRs with Cup2 N2 fronts & M0 Rears (265/325) I can say that slighty more traction available from the rear tires (205 Trofeo are like 316mm and Cup2s are like 325mm, so not that much wider in reality) but..... 265s in the front make all the difference in the world, car is planted and understeering is gone, in my opinion the fronts are making the car so much more deisrable, and at the limit they are pretty equal or within .5seconds if that.. If there will be a combo of 265/315(325) TrofeoRs hmmm that would be really nice to try
Looking also to see if there will be some real slicks in 20" available as 620R is announced to have 19/20" slicks, maybe also Nankang AR-1 might worth a try at some point, but as far as cost/performance the Cup2 N2/M0 are unbeatable for me
As for the tracks I run mostly: MotorPark and Mures Ring in Romania, Serres in Greece, Hungaroring in Hungary (F1 track)
From time to time experiencing also: Dubai Autodrome, Yas Marina in Abu Dhabi, Nurburgring, Spa in Belgium etc..
From my memory, I have zero-ed the values of DSC, but will do some more research and maybe find Mike's file... I've seen a post of him somehere in the forum and downloaded that file, might have been wrong...
send me a PM and I’ll send you my file. Only thing is that it’s made for the Tractive shocks and BTW mike runs his cars very high. Almost stock height. He does however runs much higher spring rates.
those are some awesome tracks. Keep us posted with your progress.
I hope you all doing well my friends
From your experience what is the best camber setting for the 991 turbo. A friend recommended that I keep it factory numbers, since the car equipped with active sway bar.
11-27-2019, 03:28 PM
