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They are about $1200 more per set than standard Cup2, and I will probably alternate them. I love the added grip, but I don't always need to go for lap records to have fun, either. They are faster, for sure. I pulled them yesterday for a good look, and I could definitely use more camber than the setup provided by TPC (which was provided to them by Lars Kern) to maximize tire wear, but not necessarily performance. 3 of the Girodisc/Raybestos pads are perfectly quiet on street, with one still chirping with each rotation of the wheel. I pulled that brake and reassembled everything last night, and hopefully that will shut up the forth wheel. On street, they feel and sound just like the Ferrodo DS1.11. The wear after 3 full days on track seemed very, very reasonable, too.
Yep, you are going to get that chime unless you install the receptacle and put a blank in it. Maybe just ziptie it under the seat somehow? Anyway, either reinstall it somehow or look for a software hack to stop the chime. No way could I drive on track with that chiming constantly.
Originally Posted by Randyc151
Girodisc Raybestos ST43 brake update: I wrote previously about the track performance of the ST43 pads from Girodisc - they felt awesome, but I was also running Cup2R tires. The other side of the story is street use, which I've got under my belt now. Originally expecting more noise from these pads, when I installed them I lightly applied some brake grease designed for trash trucks (3000 degree max temp range) as part of the install - I've occasionally used brake grease on a Porsche before, btw. Initially on the road after the long track weekend, I was getting 3 quiet brakes and the right rear was chirping and squealing nearly constantly. My solution was to pull that caliper and re-seat and re-grease those pads, and voila, the pad is now just as quiet as the rest.
I would say these ST43 pads with Girodisc rotors are just as quiet as the OEM pads on that originally came with the PCCBs, meaning a rare chirp or squeal or mild grinding on occasion, but I don't mind driving in my neighborhood with them at all. Pad life after 3 hard track days looks excellent, too. They are priced identically to the Ferrodo DS1.11, but I'm not positive on what the new DS3.12 will cost. A friend has been running the DS3.12 pads on his GT3 and thinks they are a big improvement over the 1.11, so we have a stalemate. I like the ST43 pads so much right now, I'm not sure I will want to change to try the 3.12's, but we will wait and see as these pads get more use and wear. If you are worried about street use, so far these pads have been perfectly fine.
Here's the Permatex Extreme caliper grease I've liked over the past 5-7 years:
A race car or dedicated track car does not need to worry about street civility, and those of us in DE world split the two sides with a solution needed for street and track (Street cars don't need it, and track cars don't need it - only cars that do dual duty). I think this is the solution. I use VERY LITTLE on the pistons and pad backs, and the springs and pins that hold the pads in place. I also clean off any that squeezes out after the parts are mated together. On first track use, there is a hint of smoke that goes away with extended cool-down driving, and then I never notice it again.
Really good to know. Did you take the dust boots out? I had to eliminate these as i kept burning them after each event. Ultimately, after talking with Mike I'm probably going to end up upgrading to PFC's once my existing pads are done. They can now offer these on all 991's. Replacement parts (discs, pads) are pretty much the same as giro's and their pads last so much longer due to their thickness.
The dust boots on the TTS do not care for track work, no. I ended up removing them, although it's not ideal. The GT2 RS caliper piston is a little different, and I have not had an issue with them yet. The PFC solution looks like an absolute champ, and I will be shopping that against the AP Racing kit eventually. It's going to depend on how much the GT2 RS sees the track.
The dust boots on the TTS do not care for track work, no. I ended up removing them, although it's not ideal. The GT2 RS caliper piston is a little different, and I have not had an issue with them yet. The PFC solution looks like an absolute champ, and I will be shopping that against the AP Racing kit eventually. It's going to depend on how much the GT2 RS sees the track.
The AP's have great reputation. I've been going back and forth with Mike on this as he offers the AP ones as well. With that said he is really loving how the PFC's are working on his car. I don't think anyone else has been converting the PFC's for street / track use on the 991's yet. I know a lot of folks have had great success with the ap's. Curious to hear your thoughts. Ap's are a bit cheaper as well.
The AP's have great reputation. I've been going back and forth with Mike on this as he offers the AP ones as well. With that said he is really loving how the PFC's are working on his car. I don't think anyone else has been converting the PFC's for street / track use on the 991's yet. I know a lot of folks have had great success with the ap's. Curious to hear your thoughts. Ap's are a bit cheaper as well.
As with a lot of high-end things in life, especially esoteric things like "which racing brakes are best", I think we fall into a trap of degrees. I see these two with matching brand reputation and perceived performance. I'll probably go with whichever is more cost effective up front and over the long haul, and which is easier to buy. AP would start off with the edge in my book, when I begin this shopping.
I am running at VIR again next weekend, and the forecast is for low 30's on Sunday morning. I started thinking about how to keep my tires from freezing over night, and did a quick search for what tire warmers would cost and entail. I found this video, and I thought about how much we can all learn about tires in general from this guy at Chicken Hawk Racing! My assumption was they got the tires ready to be fast on track, but I never though about the other benefits. The short version: Heat cycles and and the amount of damage the tires take while going out cold and warming up on track are huge killers for the life cycle of the tires. Warmers can significantly reduce the number of total cycles, they can have you at track temp and pressure on lap 1 so you are not tearing up the rubber trying to put heat in the tires, and they can help maintain the rubber by not having big hot/cold temperature shock. Anyway, it's an hour video, but I did learn a lot. Here's the video:
I learned or confirmed so much tire info from this video. Yes, it's an hour commercial for $2150 CHR tire warmers, but the how and why info applied to any tire. Highly recommended! (I may have to start lugging my Quickjack and these tire warmers to DE events, just because my Cup2R tires cost $3400 a set. Besides more on-track consistency, these can pay for themselves for much more optimum laps per set of tires due to less cold scrub wear and heat cycles)
Perhaps not the same design, but in principle they are pretty close - we use these to warm up pipes, ground, valves etc. in the oil fields when it is frigid, considerably cheaper, and durable as hell - can bring a -30c surface pipeline up to +10 in about 15 minutes.
They'll warm your tires up and you can drive on them. Way cheaper too.
I am running at VIR again next weekend, and the forecast is for low 30's on Sunday morning. I started thinking about how to keep my tires from freezing over night, and did a quick search for what tire warmers would cost and entail. I found this video, and I thought about how much we can all learn about tires in general from this guy at Chicken Hawk Racing! My assumption was they got the tires ready to be fast on track, but I never though about the other benefits. The short version: Heat cycles and and the amount of damage the tires take while going out cold and warming up on track are huge killers for the life cycle of the tires. Warmers can significantly reduce the number of total cycles, they can have you at track temp and pressure on lap 1 so you are not tearing up the rubber trying to put heat in the tires, and they can help maintain the rubber by not having big hot/cold temperature shock. Anyway, it's an hour video, but I did learn a lot. Here's the video:
I learned or confirmed so much tire info from this video. Yes, it's an hour commercial for $2150 CHR tire warmers, but the how and why info applied to any tire. Highly recommended! (I may have to start lugging my Quickjack and these tire warmers to DE events, just because my Cup2R tires cost $3400 a set. Besides more on-track consistency, these can pay for themselves for much more optimum laps per set of tires due to less cold scrub wear and heat cycles)
very interesting. Saw the whole video. I’ve been surprised on how little the tires are lasting compared to my previous cars. If this setup can save you a set of tires a season there are more than worth it. I know that with the Hoosiers I struggled a lot to control temps and tire Presssure down in FL. They get destroyed really quick if you go out there any lower than 33. Which means that in order to maintain proper pressures you need to come in several times during the day and adjust. By mid morning I would get everything pretty consistent but by the time lunch break was over then I was under pressure again and the whole thing started again. I could not get the Hoosiers to last me more than 3 track days without getting destroyed or cycled out.
im now trying the Trofeo R’s and the first set where pretty consistent but my tears where shot by the third day (this was mostly due to running them a few pounds to high) they probably would have lasted one more full day with the proper Presssure and a little more camber. So assuming that I can get these to last me 4 full track days I’m looking at least at 7 - 8 sets a year. If I can get one more day by using the methods outlined in the video that would save me 1 to maybe 2 sets a year.
Regarding the breaks I will be doing some real digging into not just initial price but long term cost of both systems. I’ll send you a PM with what I gather. Had a business trip to LA next week so decided to take a little detour and will be attending SEMA in Vegas with Mike and the DSC crew. Will be for the lookout of new products out there.
I think a lot of damage and wear happen as we try to get the tires up to temp and pressure - they are not as elastic cold as when they are hot, so they get more torn up and scuffed while we try to bring them up to track conditions. Hitting the track with hot tires avoids a lot of that, according to the video. Makes sense to me, but do I want to be "that guy" that jacks his car up and puts on tire warmers at a DE? (Honestly, not sure I care what people think...I'm bringing a GT2 RS to track already)
What engine oil temps are you all seeing? I've got a 997.2 which I feel is running a bit hot (~110 degrees C) on the track. Never gets above 90 on the road. I realise there are some slight differences between the 997.2 and 991 but there isn't a lot of information in the 997 forum. I'm guessing people don't track them much
What engine oil temps are you all seeing? I've got a 997.2 which I feel is running a bit hot (~110 degrees C) on the track. Never gets above 90 on the road. I realise there are some slight differences between the 997.2 and 991 but there isn't a lot of information in the 997 forum. I'm guessing people don't track them much
It's not uncommon at all to see 225F oil temp on track. Are you asking about oil or water temps?
I have been looking everywhere for a set of 19" wheels for track and there seems to be NONE that work completely. I am on a Turbo w/ Steels so I have more clearance. Had anyone found and verified on track a 19" set for 991 Turbo? I'd greatly appreciate it.
I have been looking everywhere for a set of 19" wheels for track and there seems to be NONE that work completely. I am on a Turbo w/ Steels so I have more clearance. Had anyone found and verified on track a 19" set for 991 Turbo? I'd greatly appreciate it.
19” wheels work. The problem is not the breaks but rather the lower control arm. You might need to shave a couple of mm on it. Given that there is very little clearance you need to make sure you use a good wheel as under the loads generated on track, if they are not fully forged, the control arm will rub.
Try Forgeline, BBS, HRE or Oz. Any of those should work.
10-30-2019, 02:38 PM
