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Old 06-19-2017, 04:19 PM
  #151  
tcsracing1
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Originally Posted by Guest89
GTE PRO = Current Year Factory Supported Car
GTE AM = 1+ Year Old Privateer Supported Car

GTE AM RSR was 2015 or 2016 spec RSR running the Mezger engine; by memory there were examples of both specs judging on wing heights (but I cannot recall specifics)
Wow. The Mezger still racing! What was the difference in lap times compared to the new RSR?

I wondered what became of the 2015-2016 RSR cars after last year.... I wasnt sure where one could still use them.

I assume they are also able to run in europe in some series?
Nothing in America that i can see?
Old 06-19-2017, 04:29 PM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by neanicu
One thing I didn't understand is why the #91 RSR went to the pits with 10 min left in the race? He changed tires and refueled,thus losing the podium. Who does that,seriously?! 10 min left!!!! You couldn't have planned it better?! Mind blowing!
The corporate brass mentioned something along the fact that they were not going to win as the car was a full minute behind and slowly sliding backwards, about a sec a lap. They were neither certain they could finish. So since it is a double points race decided to settle for fourth rather than risk a DNF. It was unclear however if the tires were shot, short of fuel or what. Long term thinking I assume.
Old 06-19-2017, 04:35 PM
  #153  
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Greetings

At the end of the RACE-Race news/reported the RSR had a tire puncture. Considering what RSR was up against they did amazing. After looking at all the web sites- data/numbers -BOP was not favorable for the 4.0L 6cyl. They had to do more with less. This time they came up short. 100 POUNDS off the RSR or equal weight to the N/A cars would have been sufficient. Just my 2cents.

BELOW-IS ALL THE INFO TO KNOCK YOURSELF OUT... judge for yourself

http://www.fia.com/events/world-endu...ance-committee

http://www.lemans.org/en/Page/results/101

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_24_Hours_of_Le_Mans

If you look at the current BOP-for the le mans race - The RSR 4.0L was the heaviest N/A car with the smallest displacement.
AM-V8-4.5L & Vette-V8- 5.5L

The P-RSR was 100+pounds heavier than all N/A cars. Pro-class

Ford & F are making over 1.4 boost on a twin turbo-- that is serious power

Below is overall RACE-BREAKDOWN-OVERALL GTE PRO
As you can see AM-FORD-CHEVY-i were going over 212kph

Race
85º Edition des 24 Heures du Mans
FIA WEC
Provisional Classification

Nr. Team Drivers Car Class Ty Laps Total Time Gap Pit Lap Time KPH

18 97 Aston Martin Racing TURNER / ADAM / SERRA Aston Martin Vantage LMGTE Pro D 340 24:03:35.578 27 Laps 9.308 24 224 3:50.950 212.4

19 67 Ford Chip Ganassi Team UK PRIAULX / TINCKNELL / DERANI Ford GT LMGTE Pro M 340 24:05:08.283 27 Laps1:32.705 25 224 3:51.438 212.0

20 63 Corvette Racing - GM MAGNUSSEN / GARCIA / TAYLOR Chevrolet Corvette C7.R LMGTE Pro M 340 24:05:11.927 27 Laps 3.644 25 213 3:51.156 212.3

21 91 Porsche GT Team LIETZ / MAKOWIECKI / PILET Porsche 911 RSR LMGTE Pro M 339 24:02:01.725 28 Laps 1 Laps 26 241 3:51.549 211.9

22 71 AF Corse RIGON / BIRD / MOLINA Ferrari 488 GTE LMGTE Pro M 339 24:03:07.323 28 Laps1:05.598 26 220 3:51.846 211.6

23 68 Ford Chip Ganassi Team USA HAND / MÜLLER / KANAAN Ford GT LMGTE Pro M 339 24:04:38.154 28 Laps1:30.831 25 256 3:51.640 211.8

24 69 Ford Chip Ganassi Team USA BRISCOE / WESTBROOK / DIXON Ford GT LMGTE Pro M 337 24:04:03.586 30 Laps 2 Laps 26 89 3:51.733 211.7

25 64 Corvette Racing - GM GAVIN / MILNER / FÄSSLER Chevrolet Corvette C7.R LMGTE Pro M 335 24:04:22.104 32 Laps 2 Laps 26 215 3:51.510 211.9

26 95 Aston Martin Racing THIIM / SØRENSEN / STANAWAY Aston Martin Vantage LMGTE Pro D 334 24:03:37.016 33 Laps 1 Laps 26 88 3:51.276 212.1

27 66 Ford Chip Ganassi Team UK MÜCKE / PLA / JOHNSON Ford GT LMGTE Pro M 332 24:04:50.601 35 Laps 1 Laps 27 30 3:51.828 211.6
Old 06-19-2017, 04:37 PM
  #154  
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Some pics


Opening flyby



Getting ready for start



This car had the speed,



Ze winning khar.



Beautiful Gulf livery



This blue is perfect for PTS



Another Gulf livery



The Porsche curves. Viewing is somewhat disappointing. The fence is quite high and of course you see the poles.



Fourth place.



Deep emerald green. Unusual color for a Ferrari



This paint scheme really came up under the bright sun.



I love this blue





How much does the flag man gets paid? One mistake and it could be lights out.
Old 06-19-2017, 04:39 PM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by Waxer
So I guess Porsche can't win with what they selll unlike Ford or Chevy or AM? $150k+ is a little much for a car that can't win.
The Chevy and AM are nothing like the street cars. never were.

Porsche GT3 Cup, GT3R and 2016 RSR had more in common with street car then any other manufacture.

Porsche finally had enough and designed the mid engine RSR to compete against the space ships from other manufactures.

The next generation 992 street car will be taking technology learned on the RSR to develop the street car. Expect to see engine location changes to allow balance and hybrid options.
Old 06-19-2017, 04:41 PM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by GrantG
My mention of DTM was not intended to refute your statement - I just found Audi's relative strength there interesting...
I'll admit that I don't follow DTM; only so much time and mental bandwidth to devote to various categories of motorsport and DTM does not pique my interest.

Originally Posted by Archimedes
Except Formula 1 attracts a rapid fan following worldwide, while prototype endurance racing is largely ignored by the masses. If there was something big to be gained by racing the LMP cars, you would think that there would be more manufacturers doing it. While I love watching those cars races, it does nothing for me from a marketing perspective in building any connection to the brand. It doesn't look like any Porsche I can buy, or any Porsche at all for that matter, and the racing spectacle doesn't have the attraction of F1. Seems like a big waste to me, other than maybe some R&D time, though I expect they could get that done a hell of a lot cheaper just running experimental cars around closed tracks. Seems like a lot of money to spend to earn the right to run some ads showing a car that's basically undistinguishable from the Toyota to the untrained eye, save for some stickers saying Porsche.
There is the potential that they withdraw after this year (or at any time for any reason, really), as has been mooted in credible outlets over the past week. Synthesizing the paraphrasing of various comments, it appears that the decision to do so would be jointly determined by timing of rules changes, expense to develop further a tub/chassis for which the "low hanging fruit" has long been harvested, and - yes - concerns surrounding return on investment.

But why would the return on investment have disappointed the Board?

They built the 919 and have raced it for four years and done well

2014 = Falter in the final hours of the race; victory in final race of season
2015 = Victory w/ the third car; FIA WEC Champions
2016 = Victory after Toyota broke in the final minutes; FIA WEC Champions
2017 = Victory

There hasn't been a global recession during the period, both the race and the championship have seen their stature and awareness promoted during the period (thanks to Porsche and Ford other OEMs...)

Originally Posted by neanicu
What makes you think I'm a troll?

Now you're just flattering yourself...

How about just state your opinion regarding a post and skip the BS part. Just PM me if you'd like to discuss further your issues with me.
(Nearly) every member of the "991 GT3 GT3RS and 911R Forum" that owns a 991.1 GT3 or GT3 RS with a PDK-S transmission probably thinks you're a troll!

I don't have an issue with your consumer preferences - I have owned multiple manual transmission 911s previously, and I was very skeptical about the PDK-only GT3 (until I drove one and then bought one) - but rather the insistent and unrepentant bleating, as well as the concomitant proselytizing, that emerges at any opportunity to promote your "identity" on this forum.
Old 06-19-2017, 04:43 PM
  #157  
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Thanks for the info and pics Just in time and wjfk32!

Just in time,you must have had a blast,well done!
Old 06-19-2017, 04:46 PM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by tcsracing1
Wow. The Mezger still racing! What was the difference in lap times compared to the new RSR?

I wondered what became of the 2015-2016 RSR cars after last year.... I wasnt sure where one could still use them.

I assume they are also able to run in europe in some series?
Nothing in America that i can see?
Difficult to compare lap times directly - Factory Pro team vs. Privateer Pro Am team

I believe they can still run in the ELMS; no use in IMSA

Originally Posted by tcsracing1
The Chevy and AM are nothing like the street cars. never were.

Porsche GT3 Cup, GT3R and 2016 RSR had more in common with street car then any other manufacture.

Porsche finally had enough and designed the mid engine RSR to compete against the space ships from other manufactures.

The next generation 992 will be taking technology learned on the RSR to develop the street car. Expect to see engine location changes to allow balance and hybrid options.
Can't wait for 992!
Old 06-19-2017, 04:53 PM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by Guest89
(2) teach him how to ********** into a sock while looking at pictures of H-patterns and clutch pedals.


Sorry guys! I just had to laugh out loud. You gotta admit, it is funny!

Last edited by tcsracing1; 06-19-2017 at 05:16 PM.
Old 06-19-2017, 04:59 PM
  #160  
neanicu
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Originally Posted by Guest89
(Nearly) every member of the "991 GT3 GT3RS and 911R Forum" that owns a 991.1 GT3 or GT3 RS with a PDK-S transmission probably thinks you're a troll!

I don't have an issue with your consumer preferences - I have owned multiple manual transmission 911s previously, and I was very skeptical about the PDK-only GT3 (until I drove one and then bought one) - but rather the insistent and unrepentant bleating, as well as the concomitant proselytizing, that emerges at any opportunity to promote your "identity" on this forum.
Now you're just grasping for straws...

My post you've quoted did not give you any right to attack me personally,nor to attack my " consumer preferences ". That tells me you have other(older) issues with my posts. As I've said,if you'd like to expand this further PM me and we'll discuss like 2 men.
Old 06-19-2017, 05:02 PM
  #161  
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This vehicle was also at LeMans but not competing.
Old 06-19-2017, 05:11 PM
  #162  
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Originally Posted by neanicu
Now you're just grasping for straws...

My post you've quoted did not give you any right to attack me personally,nor to attack my " consumer preferences ". That tells me you have other(older) issues with my posts. As I've said,if you'd like to expand this further PM me and we'll discuss like 2 men.
I'm not "grasping for straws," and I don't have any insidious designs to attack you. Further, I cannot be responsible for whatever you've inferred from my commentary; there was no such implication made.

I explained two potential reasons for why Manthey / Porsche would have pitted the #91 toward the end of the race, later corroborated by members who were there in person to hear team member explanations.
Old 06-19-2017, 05:18 PM
  #163  
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Another interesting item that has gone unreported on here; there are various clips on the internet but I am unable to link them while at work:

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/v...d-opportunity/

Toyota Gazoo Racing technical director Pascal Vasselon said he is “frustrated” by the series of issues that denied the Japanese manufacturer an elusive first victory in the 24 Hours of Le Mans.

The attrition-filled race saw two of Toyota’s three TS050 Hybrids retire before the halfway mark, with the No. 8 entry of Sebastien Buemi, Anthony Davidson and Mike Conway finishing ninth overall after a lengthy trip to the garage to replace its front motor generator unit and battery.

While having entered the weekend as pre-race favorites and sweeping the front row with Kamui Kobayashi’s new qualifying lap record, Vasselon said the defeat was an even more bitter pill to swallow considering both Porsche 919 Hybrids also faced reliability issues.

“It’s frustrating because we [had] three cars,” Vasselon told Sportscar365. “We have had only one reliability issue in all the races with the three cars.

“If we were beaten by a competitor who had perfect reliability we would say: ‘OK, they they were better,’ but they were not reliable. So it’s frustrating. It’s frustrating.”

The pole-sitting No. 7 Toyota of Kobayashi retired in the 10th hour with clutch failure, in what Vasselon said was triggered by a bizarre pit lane incident.

He said it was the “most amazing” problem they had during the race.

Kobayashi pitted for routine service while under the race’s second safety car period before going into the queue at pit exit, where Vasselon said he was signaled to re-enter the track by a fake marshal, believed to be a driver from another team.

“It’s amazing… Someone came to tell him, and we have it on video: ‘Go go go!’ And normally, our drivers are used to the human action dominate signs,” Vasselon explained.

“From our side, we told him stop because the safety car queue was coming, and it was not possible.

“There has been, as you can imagine, some confusion. Start, stop, start, stop.

“So he had done several restarts with the clutch and the combustion engine… and burned the clutch because he has been thrown into a situation which should not exist.”

Kobayashi ground to a halt moments later and was forced to retire the car at the Porsche Curves.


Vasselon attributed the loss of the No. 9 car of Nico Lapierre in the 11th hour to a collision with the No. 24 CEFC Manor TRS Racing Oreca 07 Gibson of Simon Trummer, which caused the left-rear tire puncture and subsequent fire.

“At the same time the tire destroyed the recovery system and the oil cooler over the engine, so at the same time we lost the engine and the gearbox,” he explained.

“We tried to come back in electric mode, and then we ran out of battery.”

The No. 8 car, meanwhile, lost nearly two hours replacing the front MGU, the same issue to hit the eventual race-winning No. 2 Porsche, which completed its repair in half the time of the Toyota.

Vasselon explained that its electric motor is “extremely difficult” to replace and had never been an issue in the past, while team director Rob Leupen explained they elected to also change the battery out of precaution.

Leupen admitted they “maybe wouldn’t have finished” the race had they not replaced the battery, which he said cost them between 30-45 additional minutes in the garage.

“The front motor is so reliable that we never need to change it,” Vasselon said. “It’s something we don’t do. It’s very integral and it’s not straightforward.”

Conway, who was denied a likely victory after his No. 7 car topped the time charts all week, said he was surprised by the level of attrition.

It resulted in two LMP2 cars finishing on the overall podium and the No. 38 Jackie Chan DC Racing Oreca 07 Gibson lead outright for nearly two hours, a first in the race’s history.

“It’s kind of crazy really how the whole race panned out,” Conway told Sportscar365.

“I mean when you saw the No. 2 Porsche go down 17 laps you’d have thought at that point that they’re out of this one. They were just dropping down the leader board.

“That’s what this bloody race is like. It’s not over until it’s over.

“We had cars to win the race in terms of speed, but a bit of a reliability and a bit of an unlucky side with Nico in traffic and stuff, and there you have it. It can happen so quick.”

Toyota not only leaves Le Mans without winning trophies yet again, but also having lost the lead in both the Manufacturers and Drivers’ World Championships to Porsche.

Brendon Hartley, Earl Bamber and Timo Bernhard have leapfrogged to the lead, courtesy of the double points-scoring round, and the Toyota trio only scoring points for ninth place due to a change in the regulations for 2017.

Leupen said the only thing they can do is regroup for the next round.

“We say it’s now Le Mans is over, we have done hard work for it, but we missed it, so we go to the Nürburgring and try to beat Porsche there,” he said.

“We have a World Championship to win and definitely already next year Le Mans is in the back of our heads.”
Old 06-19-2017, 05:20 PM
  #164  
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Originally Posted by Guest89
There is the potential that they withdraw after this year (or at any time for any reason, really), as has been mooted in credible outlets over the past week. Synthesizing the paraphrasing of various comments, it appears that the decision to do so would be jointly determined by timing of rules changes, expense to develop further a tub/chassis for which the "low hanging fruit" has long been harvested, and - yes - concerns surrounding return on investment.

But why would the return on investment have disappointed the Board?

They built the 919 and have raced it for four years and done well

2014 = Falter in the final hours of the race; victory in final race of season
2015 = Victory w/ the third car; FIA WEC Champions
2016 = Victory after Toyota broke in the final minutes; FIA WEC Champions
2017 = Victory

There hasn't been a global recession during the period, both the race and the championship have seen their stature and awareness promoted during the period.
But there is no connection between the racing of a car that is totally unrecognizable as a Porsche save for a few decals and actually selling the type of cars that make Porsche money. The 919 is an engineering exercise that only a small percentage of Porsche's customer base even know exists. While I enjoy watching the class, from a spectator perspective prototype racing is a friends and family affair, kinda like women's college basketball or club motorcycle racing. I don't think it has much of any impact whatsoever on brand image, so you're left with deciding whether it's worth it from an engineering and development standpoint, which, from the looks of things, most manufacturers think it's not.

I think Porsche would be much better served making the 911 platform more competitive and get it winning on the racetrack. Watching lose to Astons and Corvettes and Ferraris can't be good for the image.
Old 06-19-2017, 05:42 PM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by Archimedes
But there is no connection between the racing of a car that is totally unrecognizable as a Porsche save for a few decals and actually selling the type of cars that make Porsche money. The 919 is an engineering exercise that only a small percentage of Porsche's customer base even know exists. While I enjoy watching the class, from a spectator perspective prototype racing is a friends and family affair, kinda like women's college basketball or club motorcycle racing. I don't think it has much of any impact whatsoever on brand image, so you're left with deciding whether it's worth it from an engineering and development standpoint, which, from the looks of things, most manufacturers think it's not.

I think Porsche would be much better served making the 911 platform more competitive and get it winning on the racetrack. Watching lose to Astons and Corvettes and Ferraris can't be good for the image.
What they learn in the Prototype trickles down to the RSR and street car line-up, espcially the hybrid system for street cars.
Been this way for years.... brake technology, balance, aero etc. All learned from the race track.
Look at how the porsche race cars in the 60s and 70s (917) developed brake technology in the future 911 line up.

Look at porsche hybrid street cars today and soon 992 hybrid street cars of tomorrow.
Look at RSR now with mid engine.

Racing has been as much about R&D as it has been marketing. The prototype is paving the way for testing future technology in porsche street cars.


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