2017 LeMans
#151
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I wondered what became of the 2015-2016 RSR cars after last year.... I wasnt sure where one could still use them.
I assume they are also able to run in europe in some series?
Nothing in America that i can see?
#152
Three Wheelin'
The corporate brass mentioned something along the fact that they were not going to win as the car was a full minute behind and slowly sliding backwards, about a sec a lap. They were neither certain they could finish. So since it is a double points race decided to settle for fourth rather than risk a DNF. It was unclear however if the tires were shot, short of fuel or what. Long term thinking I assume.
#153
Greetings
At the end of the RACE-Race news/reported the RSR had a tire puncture. Considering what RSR was up against they did amazing. After looking at all the web sites- data/numbers -BOP was not favorable for the 4.0L 6cyl. They had to do more with less. This time they came up short. 100 POUNDS off the RSR or equal weight to the N/A cars would have been sufficient. Just my 2cents.
BELOW-IS ALL THE INFO TO KNOCK YOURSELF OUT... judge for yourself
http://www.fia.com/events/world-endu...ance-committee
http://www.lemans.org/en/Page/results/101
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_24_Hours_of_Le_Mans
If you look at the current BOP-for the le mans race - The RSR 4.0L was the heaviest N/A car with the smallest displacement.
AM-V8-4.5L & Vette-V8- 5.5L
The P-RSR was 100+pounds heavier than all N/A cars. Pro-class
Ford & F are making over 1.4 boost on a twin turbo-- that is serious power
Below is overall RACE-BREAKDOWN-OVERALL GTE PRO
As you can see AM-FORD-CHEVY-i were going over 212kph
Race
85º Edition des 24 Heures du Mans
FIA WEC
Provisional Classification
Nr. Team Drivers Car Class Ty Laps Total Time Gap Pit Lap Time KPH
18 97 Aston Martin Racing TURNER / ADAM / SERRA Aston Martin Vantage LMGTE Pro D 340 24:03:35.578 27 Laps 9.308 24 224 3:50.950 212.4
19 67 Ford Chip Ganassi Team UK PRIAULX / TINCKNELL / DERANI Ford GT LMGTE Pro M 340 24:05:08.283 27 Laps1:32.705 25 224 3:51.438 212.0
20 63 Corvette Racing - GM MAGNUSSEN / GARCIA / TAYLOR Chevrolet Corvette C7.R LMGTE Pro M 340 24:05:11.927 27 Laps 3.644 25 213 3:51.156 212.3
21 91 Porsche GT Team LIETZ / MAKOWIECKI / PILET Porsche 911 RSR LMGTE Pro M 339 24:02:01.725 28 Laps 1 Laps 26 241 3:51.549 211.9
22 71 AF Corse RIGON / BIRD / MOLINA Ferrari 488 GTE LMGTE Pro M 339 24:03:07.323 28 Laps1:05.598 26 220 3:51.846 211.6
23 68 Ford Chip Ganassi Team USA HAND / MÜLLER / KANAAN Ford GT LMGTE Pro M 339 24:04:38.154 28 Laps1:30.831 25 256 3:51.640 211.8
24 69 Ford Chip Ganassi Team USA BRISCOE / WESTBROOK / DIXON Ford GT LMGTE Pro M 337 24:04:03.586 30 Laps 2 Laps 26 89 3:51.733 211.7
25 64 Corvette Racing - GM GAVIN / MILNER / FÄSSLER Chevrolet Corvette C7.R LMGTE Pro M 335 24:04:22.104 32 Laps 2 Laps 26 215 3:51.510 211.9
26 95 Aston Martin Racing THIIM / SØRENSEN / STANAWAY Aston Martin Vantage LMGTE Pro D 334 24:03:37.016 33 Laps 1 Laps 26 88 3:51.276 212.1
27 66 Ford Chip Ganassi Team UK MÜCKE / PLA / JOHNSON Ford GT LMGTE Pro M 332 24:04:50.601 35 Laps 1 Laps 27 30 3:51.828 211.6
At the end of the RACE-Race news/reported the RSR had a tire puncture. Considering what RSR was up against they did amazing. After looking at all the web sites- data/numbers -BOP was not favorable for the 4.0L 6cyl. They had to do more with less. This time they came up short. 100 POUNDS off the RSR or equal weight to the N/A cars would have been sufficient. Just my 2cents.
BELOW-IS ALL THE INFO TO KNOCK YOURSELF OUT... judge for yourself
http://www.fia.com/events/world-endu...ance-committee
http://www.lemans.org/en/Page/results/101
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_24_Hours_of_Le_Mans
If you look at the current BOP-for the le mans race - The RSR 4.0L was the heaviest N/A car with the smallest displacement.
AM-V8-4.5L & Vette-V8- 5.5L
The P-RSR was 100+pounds heavier than all N/A cars. Pro-class
Ford & F are making over 1.4 boost on a twin turbo-- that is serious power
Below is overall RACE-BREAKDOWN-OVERALL GTE PRO
As you can see AM-FORD-CHEVY-i were going over 212kph
Race
85º Edition des 24 Heures du Mans
FIA WEC
Provisional Classification
Nr. Team Drivers Car Class Ty Laps Total Time Gap Pit Lap Time KPH
18 97 Aston Martin Racing TURNER / ADAM / SERRA Aston Martin Vantage LMGTE Pro D 340 24:03:35.578 27 Laps 9.308 24 224 3:50.950 212.4
19 67 Ford Chip Ganassi Team UK PRIAULX / TINCKNELL / DERANI Ford GT LMGTE Pro M 340 24:05:08.283 27 Laps1:32.705 25 224 3:51.438 212.0
20 63 Corvette Racing - GM MAGNUSSEN / GARCIA / TAYLOR Chevrolet Corvette C7.R LMGTE Pro M 340 24:05:11.927 27 Laps 3.644 25 213 3:51.156 212.3
21 91 Porsche GT Team LIETZ / MAKOWIECKI / PILET Porsche 911 RSR LMGTE Pro M 339 24:02:01.725 28 Laps 1 Laps 26 241 3:51.549 211.9
22 71 AF Corse RIGON / BIRD / MOLINA Ferrari 488 GTE LMGTE Pro M 339 24:03:07.323 28 Laps1:05.598 26 220 3:51.846 211.6
23 68 Ford Chip Ganassi Team USA HAND / MÜLLER / KANAAN Ford GT LMGTE Pro M 339 24:04:38.154 28 Laps1:30.831 25 256 3:51.640 211.8
24 69 Ford Chip Ganassi Team USA BRISCOE / WESTBROOK / DIXON Ford GT LMGTE Pro M 337 24:04:03.586 30 Laps 2 Laps 26 89 3:51.733 211.7
25 64 Corvette Racing - GM GAVIN / MILNER / FÄSSLER Chevrolet Corvette C7.R LMGTE Pro M 335 24:04:22.104 32 Laps 2 Laps 26 215 3:51.510 211.9
26 95 Aston Martin Racing THIIM / SØRENSEN / STANAWAY Aston Martin Vantage LMGTE Pro D 334 24:03:37.016 33 Laps 1 Laps 26 88 3:51.276 212.1
27 66 Ford Chip Ganassi Team UK MÜCKE / PLA / JOHNSON Ford GT LMGTE Pro M 332 24:04:50.601 35 Laps 1 Laps 27 30 3:51.828 211.6
#154
Three Wheelin'
Some pics
Opening flyby
Getting ready for start
This car had the speed,
Ze winning khar.
Beautiful Gulf livery
This blue is perfect for PTS
Another Gulf livery
The Porsche curves. Viewing is somewhat disappointing. The fence is quite high and of course you see the poles.
Fourth place.
Deep emerald green. Unusual color for a Ferrari
This paint scheme really came up under the bright sun.
I love this blue
How much does the flag man gets paid? One mistake and it could be lights out.
Opening flyby
Getting ready for start
This car had the speed,
Ze winning khar.
Beautiful Gulf livery
This blue is perfect for PTS
Another Gulf livery
The Porsche curves. Viewing is somewhat disappointing. The fence is quite high and of course you see the poles.
Fourth place.
Deep emerald green. Unusual color for a Ferrari
This paint scheme really came up under the bright sun.
I love this blue
How much does the flag man gets paid? One mistake and it could be lights out.
#155
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Porsche GT3 Cup, GT3R and 2016 RSR had more in common with street car then any other manufacture.
Porsche finally had enough and designed the mid engine RSR to compete against the space ships from other manufactures.
The next generation 992 street car will be taking technology learned on the RSR to develop the street car. Expect to see engine location changes to allow balance and hybrid options.
#156
Drifting
Except Formula 1 attracts a rapid fan following worldwide, while prototype endurance racing is largely ignored by the masses. If there was something big to be gained by racing the LMP cars, you would think that there would be more manufacturers doing it. While I love watching those cars races, it does nothing for me from a marketing perspective in building any connection to the brand. It doesn't look like any Porsche I can buy, or any Porsche at all for that matter, and the racing spectacle doesn't have the attraction of F1. Seems like a big waste to me, other than maybe some R&D time, though I expect they could get that done a hell of a lot cheaper just running experimental cars around closed tracks. Seems like a lot of money to spend to earn the right to run some ads showing a car that's basically undistinguishable from the Toyota to the untrained eye, save for some stickers saying Porsche.
But why would the return on investment have disappointed the Board?
They built the 919 and have raced it for four years and done well
2014 = Falter in the final hours of the race; victory in final race of season
2015 = Victory w/ the third car; FIA WEC Champions
2016 = Victory after Toyota broke in the final minutes; FIA WEC Champions
2017 = Victory
There hasn't been a global recession during the period, both the race and the championship have seen their stature and awareness promoted during the period (thanks to Porsche and Ford other OEMs...)
I don't have an issue with your consumer preferences - I have owned multiple manual transmission 911s previously, and I was very skeptical about the PDK-only GT3 (until I drove one and then bought one) - but rather the insistent and unrepentant bleating, as well as the concomitant proselytizing, that emerges at any opportunity to promote your "identity" on this forum.
#158
Drifting
Wow. The Mezger still racing! What was the difference in lap times compared to the new RSR?
I wondered what became of the 2015-2016 RSR cars after last year.... I wasnt sure where one could still use them.
I assume they are also able to run in europe in some series?
Nothing in America that i can see?
I wondered what became of the 2015-2016 RSR cars after last year.... I wasnt sure where one could still use them.
I assume they are also able to run in europe in some series?
Nothing in America that i can see?
I believe they can still run in the ELMS; no use in IMSA
The Chevy and AM are nothing like the street cars. never were.
Porsche GT3 Cup, GT3R and 2016 RSR had more in common with street car then any other manufacture.
Porsche finally had enough and designed the mid engine RSR to compete against the space ships from other manufactures.
The next generation 992 will be taking technology learned on the RSR to develop the street car. Expect to see engine location changes to allow balance and hybrid options.
Porsche GT3 Cup, GT3R and 2016 RSR had more in common with street car then any other manufacture.
Porsche finally had enough and designed the mid engine RSR to compete against the space ships from other manufactures.
The next generation 992 will be taking technology learned on the RSR to develop the street car. Expect to see engine location changes to allow balance and hybrid options.
#160
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Guest89
(Nearly) every member of the "991 GT3 GT3RS and 911R Forum" that owns a 991.1 GT3 or GT3 RS with a PDK-S transmission probably thinks you're a troll!
I don't have an issue with your consumer preferences - I have owned multiple manual transmission 911s previously, and I was very skeptical about the PDK-only GT3 (until I drove one and then bought one) - but rather the insistent and unrepentant bleating, as well as the concomitant proselytizing, that emerges at any opportunity to promote your "identity" on this forum.
I don't have an issue with your consumer preferences - I have owned multiple manual transmission 911s previously, and I was very skeptical about the PDK-only GT3 (until I drove one and then bought one) - but rather the insistent and unrepentant bleating, as well as the concomitant proselytizing, that emerges at any opportunity to promote your "identity" on this forum.
My post you've quoted did not give you any right to attack me personally,nor to attack my " consumer preferences ". That tells me you have other(older) issues with my posts. As I've said,if you'd like to expand this further PM me and we'll discuss like 2 men.
#162
Drifting
Now you're just grasping for straws...
My post you've quoted did not give you any right to attack me personally,nor to attack my " consumer preferences ". That tells me you have other(older) issues with my posts. As I've said,if you'd like to expand this further PM me and we'll discuss like 2 men.
My post you've quoted did not give you any right to attack me personally,nor to attack my " consumer preferences ". That tells me you have other(older) issues with my posts. As I've said,if you'd like to expand this further PM me and we'll discuss like 2 men.
I explained two potential reasons for why Manthey / Porsche would have pitted the #91 toward the end of the race, later corroborated by members who were there in person to hear team member explanations.
#163
Drifting
Another interesting item that has gone unreported on here; there are various clips on the internet but I am unable to link them while at work:
http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/v...d-opportunity/
http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/v...d-opportunity/
Toyota Gazoo Racing technical director Pascal Vasselon said he is “frustrated” by the series of issues that denied the Japanese manufacturer an elusive first victory in the 24 Hours of Le Mans.
The attrition-filled race saw two of Toyota’s three TS050 Hybrids retire before the halfway mark, with the No. 8 entry of Sebastien Buemi, Anthony Davidson and Mike Conway finishing ninth overall after a lengthy trip to the garage to replace its front motor generator unit and battery.
While having entered the weekend as pre-race favorites and sweeping the front row with Kamui Kobayashi’s new qualifying lap record, Vasselon said the defeat was an even more bitter pill to swallow considering both Porsche 919 Hybrids also faced reliability issues.
“It’s frustrating because we [had] three cars,” Vasselon told Sportscar365. “We have had only one reliability issue in all the races with the three cars.
“If we were beaten by a competitor who had perfect reliability we would say: ‘OK, they they were better,’ but they were not reliable. So it’s frustrating. It’s frustrating.”
The pole-sitting No. 7 Toyota of Kobayashi retired in the 10th hour with clutch failure, in what Vasselon said was triggered by a bizarre pit lane incident.
He said it was the “most amazing” problem they had during the race.
Kobayashi pitted for routine service while under the race’s second safety car period before going into the queue at pit exit, where Vasselon said he was signaled to re-enter the track by a fake marshal, believed to be a driver from another team.
“It’s amazing… Someone came to tell him, and we have it on video: ‘Go go go!’ And normally, our drivers are used to the human action dominate signs,” Vasselon explained.
“From our side, we told him stop because the safety car queue was coming, and it was not possible.
“There has been, as you can imagine, some confusion. Start, stop, start, stop.
“So he had done several restarts with the clutch and the combustion engine… and burned the clutch because he has been thrown into a situation which should not exist.”
Kobayashi ground to a halt moments later and was forced to retire the car at the Porsche Curves.
Vasselon attributed the loss of the No. 9 car of Nico Lapierre in the 11th hour to a collision with the No. 24 CEFC Manor TRS Racing Oreca 07 Gibson of Simon Trummer, which caused the left-rear tire puncture and subsequent fire.
“At the same time the tire destroyed the recovery system and the oil cooler over the engine, so at the same time we lost the engine and the gearbox,” he explained.
“We tried to come back in electric mode, and then we ran out of battery.”
The No. 8 car, meanwhile, lost nearly two hours replacing the front MGU, the same issue to hit the eventual race-winning No. 2 Porsche, which completed its repair in half the time of the Toyota.
Vasselon explained that its electric motor is “extremely difficult” to replace and had never been an issue in the past, while team director Rob Leupen explained they elected to also change the battery out of precaution.
Leupen admitted they “maybe wouldn’t have finished” the race had they not replaced the battery, which he said cost them between 30-45 additional minutes in the garage.
“The front motor is so reliable that we never need to change it,” Vasselon said. “It’s something we don’t do. It’s very integral and it’s not straightforward.”
Conway, who was denied a likely victory after his No. 7 car topped the time charts all week, said he was surprised by the level of attrition.
It resulted in two LMP2 cars finishing on the overall podium and the No. 38 Jackie Chan DC Racing Oreca 07 Gibson lead outright for nearly two hours, a first in the race’s history.
“It’s kind of crazy really how the whole race panned out,” Conway told Sportscar365.
“I mean when you saw the No. 2 Porsche go down 17 laps you’d have thought at that point that they’re out of this one. They were just dropping down the leader board.
“That’s what this bloody race is like. It’s not over until it’s over.
“We had cars to win the race in terms of speed, but a bit of a reliability and a bit of an unlucky side with Nico in traffic and stuff, and there you have it. It can happen so quick.”
Toyota not only leaves Le Mans without winning trophies yet again, but also having lost the lead in both the Manufacturers and Drivers’ World Championships to Porsche.
Brendon Hartley, Earl Bamber and Timo Bernhard have leapfrogged to the lead, courtesy of the double points-scoring round, and the Toyota trio only scoring points for ninth place due to a change in the regulations for 2017.
Leupen said the only thing they can do is regroup for the next round.
“We say it’s now Le Mans is over, we have done hard work for it, but we missed it, so we go to the Nürburgring and try to beat Porsche there,” he said.
“We have a World Championship to win and definitely already next year Le Mans is in the back of our heads.”
The attrition-filled race saw two of Toyota’s three TS050 Hybrids retire before the halfway mark, with the No. 8 entry of Sebastien Buemi, Anthony Davidson and Mike Conway finishing ninth overall after a lengthy trip to the garage to replace its front motor generator unit and battery.
While having entered the weekend as pre-race favorites and sweeping the front row with Kamui Kobayashi’s new qualifying lap record, Vasselon said the defeat was an even more bitter pill to swallow considering both Porsche 919 Hybrids also faced reliability issues.
“It’s frustrating because we [had] three cars,” Vasselon told Sportscar365. “We have had only one reliability issue in all the races with the three cars.
“If we were beaten by a competitor who had perfect reliability we would say: ‘OK, they they were better,’ but they were not reliable. So it’s frustrating. It’s frustrating.”
The pole-sitting No. 7 Toyota of Kobayashi retired in the 10th hour with clutch failure, in what Vasselon said was triggered by a bizarre pit lane incident.
He said it was the “most amazing” problem they had during the race.
Kobayashi pitted for routine service while under the race’s second safety car period before going into the queue at pit exit, where Vasselon said he was signaled to re-enter the track by a fake marshal, believed to be a driver from another team.
“It’s amazing… Someone came to tell him, and we have it on video: ‘Go go go!’ And normally, our drivers are used to the human action dominate signs,” Vasselon explained.
“From our side, we told him stop because the safety car queue was coming, and it was not possible.
“There has been, as you can imagine, some confusion. Start, stop, start, stop.
“So he had done several restarts with the clutch and the combustion engine… and burned the clutch because he has been thrown into a situation which should not exist.”
Kobayashi ground to a halt moments later and was forced to retire the car at the Porsche Curves.
Vasselon attributed the loss of the No. 9 car of Nico Lapierre in the 11th hour to a collision with the No. 24 CEFC Manor TRS Racing Oreca 07 Gibson of Simon Trummer, which caused the left-rear tire puncture and subsequent fire.
“At the same time the tire destroyed the recovery system and the oil cooler over the engine, so at the same time we lost the engine and the gearbox,” he explained.
“We tried to come back in electric mode, and then we ran out of battery.”
The No. 8 car, meanwhile, lost nearly two hours replacing the front MGU, the same issue to hit the eventual race-winning No. 2 Porsche, which completed its repair in half the time of the Toyota.
Vasselon explained that its electric motor is “extremely difficult” to replace and had never been an issue in the past, while team director Rob Leupen explained they elected to also change the battery out of precaution.
Leupen admitted they “maybe wouldn’t have finished” the race had they not replaced the battery, which he said cost them between 30-45 additional minutes in the garage.
“The front motor is so reliable that we never need to change it,” Vasselon said. “It’s something we don’t do. It’s very integral and it’s not straightforward.”
Conway, who was denied a likely victory after his No. 7 car topped the time charts all week, said he was surprised by the level of attrition.
It resulted in two LMP2 cars finishing on the overall podium and the No. 38 Jackie Chan DC Racing Oreca 07 Gibson lead outright for nearly two hours, a first in the race’s history.
“It’s kind of crazy really how the whole race panned out,” Conway told Sportscar365.
“I mean when you saw the No. 2 Porsche go down 17 laps you’d have thought at that point that they’re out of this one. They were just dropping down the leader board.
“That’s what this bloody race is like. It’s not over until it’s over.
“We had cars to win the race in terms of speed, but a bit of a reliability and a bit of an unlucky side with Nico in traffic and stuff, and there you have it. It can happen so quick.”
Toyota not only leaves Le Mans without winning trophies yet again, but also having lost the lead in both the Manufacturers and Drivers’ World Championships to Porsche.
Brendon Hartley, Earl Bamber and Timo Bernhard have leapfrogged to the lead, courtesy of the double points-scoring round, and the Toyota trio only scoring points for ninth place due to a change in the regulations for 2017.
Leupen said the only thing they can do is regroup for the next round.
“We say it’s now Le Mans is over, we have done hard work for it, but we missed it, so we go to the Nürburgring and try to beat Porsche there,” he said.
“We have a World Championship to win and definitely already next year Le Mans is in the back of our heads.”
#164
There is the potential that they withdraw after this year (or at any time for any reason, really), as has been mooted in credible outlets over the past week. Synthesizing the paraphrasing of various comments, it appears that the decision to do so would be jointly determined by timing of rules changes, expense to develop further a tub/chassis for which the "low hanging fruit" has long been harvested, and - yes - concerns surrounding return on investment.
But why would the return on investment have disappointed the Board?
They built the 919 and have raced it for four years and done well
2014 = Falter in the final hours of the race; victory in final race of season
2015 = Victory w/ the third car; FIA WEC Champions
2016 = Victory after Toyota broke in the final minutes; FIA WEC Champions
2017 = Victory
There hasn't been a global recession during the period, both the race and the championship have seen their stature and awareness promoted during the period.
But why would the return on investment have disappointed the Board?
They built the 919 and have raced it for four years and done well
2014 = Falter in the final hours of the race; victory in final race of season
2015 = Victory w/ the third car; FIA WEC Champions
2016 = Victory after Toyota broke in the final minutes; FIA WEC Champions
2017 = Victory
There hasn't been a global recession during the period, both the race and the championship have seen their stature and awareness promoted during the period.
I think Porsche would be much better served making the 911 platform more competitive and get it winning on the racetrack. Watching lose to Astons and Corvettes and Ferraris can't be good for the image.
#165
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But there is no connection between the racing of a car that is totally unrecognizable as a Porsche save for a few decals and actually selling the type of cars that make Porsche money. The 919 is an engineering exercise that only a small percentage of Porsche's customer base even know exists. While I enjoy watching the class, from a spectator perspective prototype racing is a friends and family affair, kinda like women's college basketball or club motorcycle racing. I don't think it has much of any impact whatsoever on brand image, so you're left with deciding whether it's worth it from an engineering and development standpoint, which, from the looks of things, most manufacturers think it's not.
I think Porsche would be much better served making the 911 platform more competitive and get it winning on the racetrack. Watching lose to Astons and Corvettes and Ferraris can't be good for the image.
I think Porsche would be much better served making the 911 platform more competitive and get it winning on the racetrack. Watching lose to Astons and Corvettes and Ferraris can't be good for the image.
Been this way for years.... brake technology, balance, aero etc. All learned from the race track.
Look at how the porsche race cars in the 60s and 70s (917) developed brake technology in the future 911 line up.
Look at porsche hybrid street cars today and soon 992 hybrid street cars of tomorrow.
Look at RSR now with mid engine.
Racing has been as much about R&D as it has been marketing. The prototype is paving the way for testing future technology in porsche street cars.