Porsche Cracking Down on Flippers?
06-10-2017, 11:38 AM
#361
See above. You had to be an original purchaser of a new 918 Spyder. It was a program for North America only.
If you kept the 918 6 months or less, the benefits ended the day the car was sold.
If you kept the 918 for more than 6 months and less than 36 months, you were in the program for 3 additional years.
If you kept the 918 for more than 36 months, then you were in the program for the full 10 years.
Benefits are non-transferable and may be revoked by PCNA at any time for suspected abuse of the program.
Program brochure is here:
https://www.scribd.com/document/1325...e=impactradius
If you kept the 918 6 months or less, the benefits ended the day the car was sold.
If you kept the 918 for more than 6 months and less than 36 months, you were in the program for 3 additional years.
If you kept the 918 for more than 36 months, then you were in the program for the full 10 years.
Benefits are non-transferable and may be revoked by PCNA at any time for suspected abuse of the program.
Program brochure is here:
https://www.scribd.com/document/1325...e=impactradius
06-10-2017, 02:34 PM
#362
06-11-2017, 12:27 PM
#363
Intermediate
I have been reading this forum for years and I realize this is my 1st post. Sorry it's a little long, the topic intrigued me. Be kind.
I can believe that Andreas would like to see every Porsche driven and used as they were intended. After all that's what Porsche was know for until the recent rise in older 911's and things the 918 program. The 911/912's I left in the swamps are being pulled out and and sol now. I can also believe that the Porsche/VW execs are happy with all the hype they have created even if the result is the cars are just parked to preserve value like Ferrari's or Ford GT's. It's rare to see these newer exotics with very many miles.
To me personally this is sad. I have been a devoted Porsche fan my whole life. My first car I ever bought myself at 18 was a 1960 356 Roadster for $1,800. I grew up with a '72 911 in the garage that my dad bought new and passed down to me 27 years ago. I could never get rid of that one. I've owned over 30 Porsche's and tons of memorabilia over the years but my dream has always been to buy a Porsche 911 new myself just like my dad did and do a European deliver with him. The way Porsche has changed over the last few years has made me re-evaluate if Porsche is the brand I can identify with anymore.
I know I'm not a Ferrari guy, nothing against their cars. I do have two Ferrari's and two Porsche's. Never had a muscle car but the GT350 R is tempting. I want a car to drive and put lots of miles on, possible short trips and track occasionally so I can experience the car at the limits. For me it's not just the car but a combination of the experience of the purchase, performance, what the brand represents, maintenance and ownership costs, uniqueness/personalization, and hopefully hold some value if I ever did have to sell. That's the least important because I plan to keep it and rack up miles. Porsche should reward new owners for having the most miles on there car each year.
A few years ago I decided I was ready and could afford to buy a new 911. I was selected to purchase the 60th but passed because I didn't like the blue and really didn't like the wheels. There have been a series of cars lately that are exciting but I really want a manual. The fun of matching revs and making perfect shifts is more important than a few seconds faster on the track. Then the GT4 came out and I thought well it's not a 911 but it is a great driving car like the 911 was originally. I got laughed at when I talked to any dealer about buying one at MSRP plus no back up camera, what's with that. Then the 911R was coming out and well we all know the deal there. Now the NA .2 GT3 manual is out and I'm thinking it's close to the spirit of the R so this is it, I'll talk to a few dealers and get on a list. Again just laughed at and couldn't even get on a list officially. I'm not wealthy, I can afford a GT3 at MSRP with a down payment and loan. I just can't bring myself to pay an ADM, it goes against my nature and like I said the purchase experience is important to me. I find it funny that people with the most money get the cars at MSRP and the average buyer gets hit with a big mark up. Most don't drive them and then they sell them for exactly what they pay or for a little more so basically have a car for free and then do it again and again. Only putting a few miles on each of them. Someone earlier referenced the independent dealer on Ferrarichat (AMG USA - Atlantis Motor Group) who already sold their two .2 GT3 manual positions for $30k each. They didn't even take delivery so is Porsche cracking down on them. I don't think so. I bet they have Turbo S and GT2 allocations promised already too.
I'm starting to realize from what I read here and in other forums I'm probably not the customer that Porsche even wants anymore. I have always considered myself a Porsche purist, loyal to the brand, but I think it's time to get some therapy and accept it's time to move on to try something else.
I can believe that Andreas would like to see every Porsche driven and used as they were intended. After all that's what Porsche was know for until the recent rise in older 911's and things the 918 program. The 911/912's I left in the swamps are being pulled out and and sol now. I can also believe that the Porsche/VW execs are happy with all the hype they have created even if the result is the cars are just parked to preserve value like Ferrari's or Ford GT's. It's rare to see these newer exotics with very many miles.
To me personally this is sad. I have been a devoted Porsche fan my whole life. My first car I ever bought myself at 18 was a 1960 356 Roadster for $1,800. I grew up with a '72 911 in the garage that my dad bought new and passed down to me 27 years ago. I could never get rid of that one. I've owned over 30 Porsche's and tons of memorabilia over the years but my dream has always been to buy a Porsche 911 new myself just like my dad did and do a European deliver with him. The way Porsche has changed over the last few years has made me re-evaluate if Porsche is the brand I can identify with anymore.
I know I'm not a Ferrari guy, nothing against their cars. I do have two Ferrari's and two Porsche's. Never had a muscle car but the GT350 R is tempting. I want a car to drive and put lots of miles on, possible short trips and track occasionally so I can experience the car at the limits. For me it's not just the car but a combination of the experience of the purchase, performance, what the brand represents, maintenance and ownership costs, uniqueness/personalization, and hopefully hold some value if I ever did have to sell. That's the least important because I plan to keep it and rack up miles. Porsche should reward new owners for having the most miles on there car each year.
A few years ago I decided I was ready and could afford to buy a new 911. I was selected to purchase the 60th but passed because I didn't like the blue and really didn't like the wheels. There have been a series of cars lately that are exciting but I really want a manual. The fun of matching revs and making perfect shifts is more important than a few seconds faster on the track. Then the GT4 came out and I thought well it's not a 911 but it is a great driving car like the 911 was originally. I got laughed at when I talked to any dealer about buying one at MSRP plus no back up camera, what's with that. Then the 911R was coming out and well we all know the deal there. Now the NA .2 GT3 manual is out and I'm thinking it's close to the spirit of the R so this is it, I'll talk to a few dealers and get on a list. Again just laughed at and couldn't even get on a list officially. I'm not wealthy, I can afford a GT3 at MSRP with a down payment and loan. I just can't bring myself to pay an ADM, it goes against my nature and like I said the purchase experience is important to me. I find it funny that people with the most money get the cars at MSRP and the average buyer gets hit with a big mark up. Most don't drive them and then they sell them for exactly what they pay or for a little more so basically have a car for free and then do it again and again. Only putting a few miles on each of them. Someone earlier referenced the independent dealer on Ferrarichat (AMG USA - Atlantis Motor Group) who already sold their two .2 GT3 manual positions for $30k each. They didn't even take delivery so is Porsche cracking down on them. I don't think so. I bet they have Turbo S and GT2 allocations promised already too.
I'm starting to realize from what I read here and in other forums I'm probably not the customer that Porsche even wants anymore. I have always considered myself a Porsche purist, loyal to the brand, but I think it's time to get some therapy and accept it's time to move on to try something else.
06-11-2017, 12:47 PM
#364
06-11-2017, 02:51 PM
#365
a few, including those of 356s & 911s:
Out of a swampy lake:
*
Out of a humid barn:
**
Jim's point is well taken. Not that long ago we
used to discard older 356s, 911s & 912's that
today we would restore due to their current
elevated values!
When I arrived in Northern California in the
middle 1980s, I used to hang around Jim
Breazeale's European Auto Salvage Yard
('EASY') in Emeryville, CA.
Back then, he had 20 or more 356's in his
building that he had bought as salvage from
insurance companies. By today's standards,
they would have all been easy restorations.
But back then we could find so many 356s
in primo original conditions & driving order
in California that these 356s were being cut
up for parts! I still have countless small parts,
*****, trim pieces, etc in my 356 collection
from those old foraging expeditions at Easy!
In the 1990s, I myself bought a rusty 356 C
sunroof coupe from a friend for $950 after
he stripped everything out of it. I borrowed
a Sawzall® & with a friend proceeded to cut
off the electric sunroof!
Since we had never done this before, we
cut below the A & C pillars to make sure
we didn't screw up anything up. In effect
we sheared the top of the car totally off!
Today that sunroof 356 C coupe would have
been totally restorable & very valuable once
completed!
Even the Porsche Museum is not immune
to trying to bring back from the dead a 911
that just a few years ago would not have
been worthy of an expensive restoration!
I wrote about the very early #57 911 that
the Museum was in the process of restoring
during my last visit in April:
"
One of the cars being restored expertly at the present
in this area is 'Porsche Number 57'. The story of how
#57 came to be discovered & purchased by PAG is not
well known to us in North America...but apparently most
Germans know about via a famous local TV program there.
The car was found inside an old chicken coop!
Post # 32
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...ndscape-3.html
****
Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale
PS Jim55: Good first post above & it's appreciated.
I feel you pain. Don't lose all hope & keep the faith!
06-11-2017, 08:25 PM
#367
Rennlist Member
I'm another long time Porsche owner and fan as well, but the whole situation of trying to get a GT car to own and drive has become disheartening.
06-11-2017, 08:27 PM
#368
Rennlist Member
and thats what turned Ferrari into douchemobiles, (no offense to F car owners) but when the enthusiasts are kept out the douches buy em, but I hear even they have figured it out somewhat
06-12-2017, 12:44 AM
#369
Rennlist Member
Porsche is cracking down. Hmm, so today someone offers me an allocation for "only $15k" over sticker for a configurable GT3 August build. He will connect me with his salesman. Yeah, sure they are cracking down. I said no thanks.
06-12-2017, 12:51 AM
#370
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Porsche doesn't care about flippers.
Yes, the people at Porsche who interact with the public will pay lip service that Porsche cares about such market manipulation.
But the folks at Porsche who make the real decisions (i.e., those in the C suite), do not.
Yes, the people at Porsche who interact with the public will pay lip service that Porsche cares about such market manipulation.
But the folks at Porsche who make the real decisions (i.e., those in the C suite), do not.
06-12-2017, 07:13 AM
#371
Rennlist Member
Flipper = buyer with privileged access to a good in low supply and high demand. (Of course, this includes the dealers.) Open up the market (allow every interested buyer to bid for the good directly from the seller) and the price will immediately adjust to real supply/demand => no flippers.
Market (incentive) based solutions are far superior to solutions based on decree ("Don't flip or else...")
Market (incentive) based solutions are far superior to solutions based on decree ("Don't flip or else...")
06-12-2017, 11:52 AM
#373
See above. You had to be an original purchaser of a new 918 Spyder. It was a program for North America only.
If you kept the 918 6 months or less, the benefits ended the day the car was sold.
If you kept the 918 for more than 6 months and less than 36 months, you were in the program for 3 additional years.
If you kept the 918 for more than 36 months, then you were in the program for the full 10 years.
Benefits are non-transferable and may be revoked by PCNA at any time for suspected abuse of the program.
Program brochure is here:
https://www.scribd.com/document/1325...e=impactradius
If you kept the 918 6 months or less, the benefits ended the day the car was sold.
If you kept the 918 for more than 6 months and less than 36 months, you were in the program for 3 additional years.
If you kept the 918 for more than 36 months, then you were in the program for the full 10 years.
Benefits are non-transferable and may be revoked by PCNA at any time for suspected abuse of the program.
Program brochure is here:
https://www.scribd.com/document/1325...e=impactradius
The way I understand it, there are two categories of allocations.
Production, where the dealers decide where the allocations go. (GT3, GT3RS etc.)
Special, where Porsche decide who gets the allocations (911R, Exclusive turbo, GT2rs etc)
Canada must have some sort of list, which is similar to the VIP program in The US. My dealer got me a GT3 allocation, and is "guaranteeing" me a .2 GT3RS when it comes out, but can not commit to the exclusive turbo or the next"918".
06-12-2017, 12:09 PM
#375
Drifting
Thanks for the responses. I guess my question is how to get onto the list for the next "918" whatever that will be called.
The way I understand it, there are two categories of allocations.
Production, where the dealers decide where the allocations go. (GT3, GT3RS etc.)
Special, where Porsche decide who gets the allocations (911R, Exclusive turbo, GT2rs etc)
Canada must have some sort of list, which is similar to the VIP program in The US. My dealer got me a GT3 allocation, and is "guaranteeing" me a .2 GT3RS when it comes out, but can not commit to the exclusive turbo or the next"918".
The way I understand it, there are two categories of allocations.
Production, where the dealers decide where the allocations go. (GT3, GT3RS etc.)
Special, where Porsche decide who gets the allocations (911R, Exclusive turbo, GT2rs etc)
Canada must have some sort of list, which is similar to the VIP program in The US. My dealer got me a GT3 allocation, and is "guaranteeing" me a .2 GT3RS when it comes out, but can not commit to the exclusive turbo or the next"918".
There is no VIP program here in Canada. But the 918 owners are all "best" customers to their respective dealers so they always get first crack.
That said, my older brother will be getting whatever Porsche decides is the 918 successor and it really doesn't take much more than having a relationship with your dealer and the ability to drop the $200k+ Deposit that will be required to purchase said successor.
I've got him on my dealers radar for the GT2RS, but was told that it may be a long shot as there are 2 x 918 owners at my particular dealer.
GL mon ami!