tgavem

Members here are not asking for free market but for Porsche to provide an over supply. Porsche primary responsibility is to its shareholders and employees. Asking Porsche to manufacture more cars than the market can support is not the best for Porsche. With patience market will correct itself. You can now buy GT3 below MSRP, and GT3RS prices are getting close to MSRP.
In a free market anybody can buy what they want. To help correct the market, stop demand for Porsche and buy other cars;
Corvette's - currently sold at discount because Chevy manufacture to many
Nissan GTR -
Camero -
Mercedes AMG GT S/R - 2016/17 are very discounted
BMW -
Acura NSX -
Etc

In a free market you have to choice to buy at peak, wait or buy something else. Buying something else will shift demand curve and and prices will adjust.

CAlexio

100% ADM makes Porsche dealers seem downright pious.

vantage

I call it pseudo-speculators. There are now people interested in buying these cars because they hold their value and can be owned for a year or so without losing money. It is worst in the U.K., where you have cars flooding the market suddenly because those that don't want to lose any money can't put miles on the car without risking value diminishment. So they sell hoping to recover their money instead of actually driving the car.

Of course resale value is a valid criterion when purchasing a car, but when it becomes the reason to buy or a major justification in purchase, it can lead to these frustrating issues.

I attribute the overal increased demand of these cars to PDK and much improved general refinement over the 997.

dark knight

^^definitely one of the problems, as a stockholder, I imagine that the GT3 is a higher profit margin vehicle than a base 911 or boxster, so I support building more, instead of demand-100s how about demand+1

Nizer

Looks like Aston is addressing the flippers head on.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mot...-flipping/amp/

JCtx

If anybody is going to make money out of a car, it's better to be the manufacturer. As AP said, they're not a hedge fund. If flippers are making money, they're leaving money on the table, period. PLUS losing customers to competitors, due to less supply than demand. The perfect solution is to build exactly to demand, and that requires not making any model a limited production... although they could try to equalize price with anticipated production with the same effect, since many buyers seem to be obsessed with the limited production part. And I guess that's exactly what Porsche seems to be trying with the GT2. No way I think it's worth it at that price, but there're obviously takers, and once Porsche gets the formula right (price vs production volume), the flipping and ADM games should stop. That's the only way IMO, and the correct way, so Porsche can put that extra money on development, and avoid another 991 GT3 engine fiasco. Oh, and to help pay for the dieselgate stupidity too.

InnovateGT3

My dealer in Canada had me sign a first of right refusal purchase agreement and I'm surprised this hasn't trickled down to U.S. dealers.

rodsky

Porsche took a page out of Ferrari's play book. Ferrari builds halo cars that are unobtainable e.g. Enzo, LaFerrari etc. limited number halo cars. These halo cars create a demand aura for the rest of their cars. Even mass produced ones that almost anyone can walk in and buy. After halo they built the stradale, the scuderia that were hardcore and still limited production. Tough to get. Porsche has the same thing. 918, then GT3, 981 Spyder, GT3RS, R. You can't just walk into a dealership and buy one, unless of course you pay a flipper enough $$ to do so. Adidas is doing the same thing with sneakers (Yeezy is the name I believe) and they are suddenly killing it. Of course, even your mass produced product has to be top notch for this to work.

CAlexio

To your point.. did you see what happened to the "collector" sneaker market in past few months. Yes, it completely evaporated, and all these young kids who had begged borrowed and stolen to get "limited" models, are now trying to sell desperately. The analogy is not too distant from what we are seeing.. just proportionally older, higher purchasing power, but just as short-sighted and out of touch with what matters in reality

rodsky

Didn't see that, don't follow it too closely. Although I have an 11 year old son who likes sneakers. I did however see that Adidas has almost doubled their market share of sneakers in the US. Believe I read than in the WSJ.

But I still think Mac (F1, P1h Ferrari and Porsche (even Ford with FGT and GT350R), Bugatti etc., are creating the halo effect with limited number cars. But that is creating the flipping game. It is what it is. Some will get burned playing it. Whether it's with Yeezys or 911Rs etc. if you bought an R for $450 to flip, that may be a tough game and you better know it well.

I am not sure the vitriol is warranted. GTR3S 4.0 are going through the same game. No one gets angry when one is put up for sale at $500k. But put up an R and everyone goes crazy. If they made 5000 of either, they would be going for a lot less.

Oh and by the way, as soon as you create a limited number car, you form a collectible market. How many 4.0s do you see on the track or around town. They are mostly put away and traded by collectors. True, some are driven but I would guess that most aren't.. Sad

dark knight

sneakers are traded by the semi retarded keeping up w/ kardashian crowd, apples to oranges here

CAlexio

Nope.. it's all relative... apples to apples exactly in fact, just more zeros in each transaction.

You think the car dealer who bought the R to flip it is motivated by anything more than the desire for a quick profit? Or you think he wasn't the kid who collected sneakers when he was younger?
Hustling is hustling. It's all the same emotions which drive people to not consider all factors. Just because we are equating sneaker flippers or those who buy Supreme brand clothes to sell on eBay to a lower socioeconomic spectrum, doesn't make the driving force behind those decisions any different. Lots of "keeping up with the kardashian crowd" as you say here on Rennlist also. it's all the same mr knight.

orthojoe

Totally agree with you there.

mcsmcs1

Bigger $$$, but it's exactly the same game.

JCtx

Indeed. And one smart people don't play.