Nur93

I did read Kobalt as just being Iroic...due to the fact I told sport auto did say M4 GTS did suffer in the 30 degrees (as termal load was great on engine even its waterinjection)

Nur93

If some one want me to post the full text from Sport auto supertest on 991 gen 2 GTS, just say so.

fxz

Let s be honest there s no real reason for .2GT3 to get such a better Ring time than a .1RS

the only reason is the AMG GT R sportauto 7.10s laptime

but i could care less i like the .2GT3 engine even if it is slower on Ring

Outlaw

The part that stands out to me is how stable GTR is on this brutal track compared to this video with same driver.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...n-a-viper-acr/

Macca

Yes please ;-)

Nur93

SUPERTEST PORSCHE 911 CARRERA GTS TO BE OR NOT TO BE? Until now, the elders with GTS logo were more distinguished by their chic look than by a real performance gain. Only nice or faster? The current Porsche 911 Carrera GTS in the Supertest. Oh, again a 911 in the Supertest, what is new this time - other exhaust hoods and black wheels? ", Asks a test driver of a Bavarian automobile brand smiling, when I open up with the Porsche 911 Carrera GTS at the Nordschleife. The subliminal criticism: You are presenting too many Porsche in the Supertest, and at most too many Porsche in the whole issue. A topic, to which we also sometimes receive, as in the current issue, reader letters. And so now again a Porsche in the Supertest and also an Elfer variant. Stop, dear critic, the 911 Carrera GTS is the first Porsche in the Supertest in seven editions. Mercedes-AMG GT S, Ferrari 488 GTB, Ford Focus RS, Honda NSX, Aston Martin Vantage GT8, Mini JCW Pro, Mercedes-AMG GT R - Supersportcars, compact sports cars, sporty small cars, a bigger mix of different brands and vehicle categories is currently underway Superstest hardly. It is also not to us that some vehicles simply do not want to find the way to the Supertest. The Supertest of the Corvette Z06, which has now lasted for two years, is but one example. Other test cars, such as the Ferrari F12 tdf, are canceled directly, or it remains with monthly and unfortunately usually unsuccessful e-mail correspondence. At this point, I would also like to thank the press department in Zuffenhausen and its test car management. If you ask for a test car, you get it promptly and without major problems made available. Lift the 911 world out of the hunt Even the Porsche critics will have to admit after this supertest that this 911 Carrera GTS absolutely rightly found the way into the Supertest. And he was not really on the Supertestliste. As already described in the comparison test with the Corvette Grand Sport in the last edition, the abbreviation GTS in the modern era was rather a shadow of his glorious racing sport with the legendary Porsche 904 Carrera GTS from the 1960s. GTS in the present, this has always been a clever sales process to maintain sales after a certain production cycle. And so get in nice regularity any Porsche models, whether Panamera, Cayenne, Macan, Cayman, Boxster or even the 911, the GTS logo to the tailgate popped. For the first time, Porsche presented the Elfer 997 series with the GTS logo in 2010. No question, the GTS special models of the Elfer looked quite well, but did they also have a value added from a performance perspective? A little retrospect in the test history: In sportsauto-Heft 4/2011, the 408 hp strong 997 Carrera GTS showed a lap of 1.12.9 minutes in Hockenheim, five tenths of a second faster than the then 385 hp strong 997 Carrera S. The last 911 Carrera GTS with 430 hp strong naturally aspirated engine from the first 991 generation, on its two appearances (sport auto 2 and 9/2015) with lap times of 1.10.8 minutes and 1.11.7 minutes, the 400 hp strong basic model Carrera S (1.10, 4 minutes). Conclusion: The performance gain behind the abbreviation GTS was so far rather manageable. And then came the 17th March 2017: Hockenheim, 11.46 clock, the current 911 Carrera GTS runs in 1.08,0 minutes around the small course and lifts the 911 world from the angling. Thus, the GTS was faster than any series-8, which has so far covered our reference track with us in the test and Supertest. No 911 turbo (best time so far 1.08.2 min), no GT3 RS (best time so far 1.08.5) and also not the legend GT2 RS (best time 1.08.4 min) laid such a round time, like the crimson painted 911 GTS. Already when rolling back from the fast lap to the pit lane was clear, this 911 has earned itself after the short program in Hockenheim also the Kür auf the Nordschleife. While the rear-wheel-drive driver is taking the road towards the Nordschleife under the wheels with the full comfort of the suspension, there is ample time for a performance. Like all GTS models, the S-GO 4064 also carries the bodywork of the Carrera 4 with the wheel arches on the rear axle, 44 mm wider. In front, the GTS is recognizable by the new sport-design front skirt with larger air openings and the black spoiler lip. The Sport-Design exterior mirrors feature a black mirror base as well as lettering on the doors. At the rear, the GTS not only betrays itself by the typeface, but also by the darkened taillights, the black tailpipes as well as an air inlet grille with black painted strips. Shines with thrust: 450-PS-Biturbo Let us come to the technique, the lowest

Kobalt

^Gotta love Google Translate

Thanks Nur93!

Nur93

Let's get to the technology that's underneath. Like its predecessors, the current GTS is also showing a moderate increase in performance. Compared to the 420 hp Carrera S, the three-liter six-cylinder with twin turbocharging now has 30 hp more. New turbochargers are responsible for the performance. The GTS turbochargers have a larger turbine wheel diameter (48 instead of 45 mm) and a larger compressor wheel diameter (55 instead of 51 mm) compared to those of the S-model. In addition, the maximum charge pressure has been increased from 1.1 up to now up to 1.25 bar. Short data comparison: The acceleration shows that it is not only the performance that has helped the GTS to its transverse dynamic heights in Hockenheim. At 100, the newcomer sprints a tenth of a second faster than the 991.2 Carrera S in the Supertest (see sport auto 6/2016). Up to 200 km / h the GTS is nine-tenths of a second faster with 11.9 seconds. The Biturbo boxer shines above all through the thrust in the low speed range and its homogeneous power development over a wide speed range. He does not come quite close to the lusty-looking last suction engine GTS with sports exhaust system, however, from an emotional point of view, but the Elfer community does not have to make a memorial day when the biturbo turns up today. The Biturbo-GTS also carries the sport exhaust system as standard. So that the boxer skirt penetrates a little bit more unfiltered to the ear, the development team also reduced the insulation of the GTS. O-Ton Porsche: "The insulation has been reduced as a weight and emotionalization measure in the area of ​​the wheelhouse, seat bottom, convertible top shelf, B-pillar, rear end plate, rear side of the fund and in the top-tether area." Weight reduction: 1.1 kilograms. Next time please without resets With a weight of 150 kg, the GTS is even two kilograms lighter than the 991.2 Carrera S from the Supertest 2016. Thanks to the optional sports seat seats with shells made of glass and carbon fiber reinforced plastic (minus 14.4 kg compared to the Seriensitz) and the Ceramic brake system PCCB (minus 11.5 kilograms versus the steel brake), all registers were pulled by weight with this GTS, in order to save unnecessary pounds. Halt, not all: Exclusively for the GTS, there is also the free option called "Removal Rear Seat". As the name suggests, the 2 + 2-seater is then a pure two-seater. Without emergency seats, the GTS in the rear area leaves a bit of GT3 ambience, in which also the rear view only falls on the covered middle tunnel. The option "Abandoned Rear Seat" would have saved 7.6 kilos again, and the current GTS test car would have been a member of the "Under 1500 kilo club". Had, if, - arrival north loop, here are no excuses. Before the ride over the Eifelachterbahn quickly change the Schalensitz for the race course visit. While the sports seat seats fit well in the day and seat position even large persons in everyday life, the sitting position with helmet is then a bit too high. Carefully pull out the plug with the cable for the seat heating and then remove the seat cushion completely. Without a seat cushion, the seat position also fits perfectly with the helmet. After the driver's seat still nimbly the driving programs of the GTS adjust. Turn the steering wheel to "S +". As with the Carrera S, four different modes are available with "Normal", "Sport", "Sport Plus" and "Individual". No matter whether it is a small course in Hockenheim or Nordschleife, the Sport-Plus mode is the best choice for the PASM shock absorbers, the active motor bearings and the PDK shift strategy as sportily as possible. As with the Carrera S, the Adaptivdämpfer can be driven not only in Hockenheim but also in the Nordschleife in the tightest coordination. 100-0 km / h: 30.6 m! Respect! Attack, already in the changing curves in the Hatzenbach can be a clear criticism, which made itself in the Supertest of the 991.2 Carrera S noticeable largely revised. In the 991.2 Carrera S, the electromechanical steering subjectively fell by the medium position by an too indirect, too comfortable feedback. In addition, the steering angle requirement was too large and the hand torque was too small. In everyday life, this steering coordination was quite comfortable, but on a race track or a country road, it subjectively lacked the crisp "Porsche feeling" of past times. As before in Hockenheim, the feedback of steering in the GTS now also feels more directly on the north loop around the medium. In addition, the holding forces were again somewhat tighter. The feeling is not deceptive: According to Porsche, a further development of the steering parameterisation was carried out at the GTS, in order to achieve a more binding hand due to a slightly raised hand torque

Nur93

Steering feeling. Early 991.2 vehicles, such as the Carrera S from the Supertest, did not yet have this application. According to Porsche, this development has not only been integrated into the GTS models, but also in the other standard models. For the spontaneous steering behavior of the GTS, not only the steering engineers, but above all also the entire crew around the tire development deserve praise. The 911 Carrera GTS is equipped with the optional Pirelli P Zero Corsa N0 for the first time a real sports tire (see technical spotlight). On the factory, the GTS rolls on the Pirelli P Zero N1, which is already known by the Carrera S. Thanks to the very good grip level and the harmonious coordination of the new Pirelli sports tire on the ABS, the braking points can be set noticeably later than in the Carrera S with N1 series tires. Brake: With a phenomenal braking value of 30.6 meters from 100 km / h to 0, the 911 Carrera GTS is the best brake of the Supertest-history, pre-applause please! - the 991 GT3 RS (31.3 m) and the 918 Spyder (31.4 m). Hatzenbach, Quiddelbacher Höhe, airfield, approach to the Swede - compared to the Carrera S, the GTS on the top of the Swede crosses a bit more restless, but still remains well manageable after the landing. Compared to the Carrera S, the lift coefficients at the GTS are minimally worse (see box of the wind tunnel). In addition, the GTS at 266 km / h is also slightly faster than the Carrera S (264 km / h). Braking Aremberg, especially in the narrower curves, the GTS scores with its increased grip level. In addition to the new Corsa tires, the wider track on the rear axle (plus 26 mm compared to Carrera S) as well as the GTS standard centrifugal wheels of the Turbo S are responsible for the higher mechanical grip. On the front and rear axles they are half an inch wider than the C2S wheels, thereby increasing the tire contact area. Reinsert, and immediately be fast. "From the feeling I had a good feeling," said once footballer Andy Möller. A legendary quote that fits well as a motto for the GTS. The test car, which is equipped with a 20mm suspension and a rear axle steering system, is equipped with a range of easy-to-navigate options, such as the PDCC-Wankassistenten, the PASM sports suspension, and provides a high degree of confidence during the first Nordschleife rounds. The driving stability, for example in the fox tube (254 km / h) or on the ground waves at the end of the boiler at 245 km / h, is surprisingly high. But braking stability is also a decisive factor on the north loop. The GTS remains calm and stable on the brake on ground shafts (for example, before the section of the Metzgesfeld section) or before the torque curve. The double clutch transmission PDK also delivers its contribution to the simple drivability in the limit range. In sports-plus mode, the transmission adapts its shifting times and its shifting strategy perfectly to travel in the limit area. In other words, the talented pilot is hardly able to pull the gearshifts or operate the gearbox selector lever as perfect as the gearbox itself is at the right time for boosting and downshifting. So rather like the transmission the gear choice left. Fastest 911 on the Nordschleife Even after the Hockenheim round-trip, it was clear that the current GTS no longer only offers a purchase incentive for primarily optical reasons, but also wants to be taken seriously under cross-dynamic aspects. At the latest when the GTS hunts over the target line at section section T13, the eleven with the three letters underpins his claims. With a lap time of 7.24 minutes, he is not only just as fast as the 997 GT2 RS, he shares with the legendary Biturbo hero also the title of the currently fastest series-Elfer in the Supertest on the Nordschleife. Hat off, Porsche 911 Carrera GTS! ◾ Text Christian Gebhardt · Photos Hans-Dieter Seufert, Achim Hartmann (4) MY OPINION Quite honest, actually I had the GTS not on my Supertestjahresliste planned. 911 GTS, which for me has always been one, admittedly chic, Elfer, but from the performance point of view nothing could really be better than the "normal" Carrera S. The GTS was so far only a clever sales strategy to boost the 911 sales further , The longitudinal dynamics as well as the transverse dynamics gain of the GTS remained within an extremely manageable range for the suction engine models. With the 991.2 Carrera GTS this is finally different. In addition to the powerful pushing-on bit turbocharger, the new Pirelli option tires have also played a decisive role in the performance gain.

Macca

That's so much Nur93. That makes excellent reading. The new GTS is a definite step up. It actually is embarrassingly good and superiors even SportAuto

kingjr9000

AZ

GrantG

How representative usually are AZ's times (compared to things like Supertest and factory times)?

Nur93

Its Horst Von Saurma driving, he was the man who always did sport auto superlaps since way back. Christian G took over after HvS at sport auto. Mind you, age do somthing to you in Regards of fast laptimes at Nurburgring and HvS is far from slow but ...I guess he Is slower these days than he was in the past.

Now this lap was 11 seconds slower than factory. Mindy you factory would never lap in this warm outside temp, and It do count for some seconds. A hot day Christian was also 8-9 seconds slower than factory in 991 GT3 RS and M4 GTS. Cold day Christian was only a few second of the factory pace in Porsche GT4, 991 carrera etc.

Also back in the days old chief editor at sport auto HvS was only a few seconds of the factory pace in Carrera GT. So they legend HvS can lap. Still age make you slower on the ring in the end.

Once back in the days at sport auto drivers training on Nurburgring I sat in as passanger when HvS lap the brand new on the market 997 GT3 RS. He was fast, even he held the steering wheel in a very strange way the whole lap.☺️

GrantG

Thanks. I think HvS did 7:32 in 991.1 GT3, right? When he was 4 years younger . Don't know if the weather was cooler then though...

Nur93

I am not sure how they get the BTG time. Like thats wrong. If you se Porsche factory lap on youtube GT3 gen 2 take 23 seconds on long straight(gantry to bridge). HvS could also manage that more or less. Not that hard to be full speed there even slightly left bend in 280km/h.

So take out 23 seconds from 7.24 min lap, thats 7.01min right. Well Sport auto and auto ZEITUNG and all others use sport auto standard when laping..Hence they do Not drive the ca. 200m at old T13 pit! So to make this a real BTG lap one must ad the time It take gen 2 GT3 to drive then 200m at T13 as you drive that 200m on BTG lap. Still Nobody know the time of GT3 gen 2 on them 200m..yet right, but we can take a simular power/weight car to see..

ahh its more or less 4-5 seconds depending on driver then I guess..
Hence BTG should be more or less ca 7.05min I guess.

My guess Is they just take out them 23 sec on long straight but forget to ad the 4-5sec on T13..