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Put the GTS on the same new N1 Cup2 and over the lap the GTS will be faster. Incredible how far the "regular" 911 has come in outright pace, and there is no denying that Porsche got it right with the 3.0T. Where would it be with a 500 hp tune? Ultimate compromise if you mainly want to drive on the road, but also take it to the track.
@drdonger, as you see we agree. Still I guess we cant pay to much attention to what them magazines make In terms of laptime. But rather what we can make out of the cars. Hence the GTS is that close to a GT3 its out of this world, its never been this close before. And alot of GT3 owners will notice this on track I am sure.
Originally Posted by Nur93
Its a close call, due to GTS seems so god. Remember on hockenheim Porsche GTS is only 1 tenths slower than PDK gen 2 GT3😱 But GT3 for me, reason is value should probably stay better(who knows but I guess) , engine sound and It will be more consistent over the full days on track.
Put the GTS on the same new N1 Cup2 and over the lap the GTS will be faster. Incredible how far the "regular" 911 has come in outright pace, and there is no denying that Porsche got it right with the 3.0T. Where would it be with a 500 hp tune? Ultimate compromise if you mainly want to drive on the road, but also take it to the track.
Put the GTS on the same new N1 Cup2 and over the lap the GTS will be faster. Incredible how far the "regular" 911 has come in outright pace, and there is no denying that Porsche got it right with the 3.0T. Where would it be with a 500 hp tune? Ultimate compromise if you mainly want to drive on the road, but also take it to the track.
The GTS is clearly better; everyone on the .2GT3 list ahead of me should switch their orders to GTS.
The dyno plots are very interesting - look at the difference in peak WHP - its actually not much.
The data are from Sport Auto, WHP as measured on a MAHA dyno - the GT3 has peak WHP around 380 Vs GTS at 364 (when combined with run down losses engine HP as PS, GT3 500 claimed - 501 measured; GTS 450 claimed - 454 measured).
What is certain is the 991 GT2 is going to be an absolute monster. To be honest its really a choice between apples (turbo) and oranges (NA) - they are both tasty but different.
Porsche has done a great job with the 3l twin turbo, its a great mill - very responsive and it delivers great performance. I have collected quite a bit of telemetry from my S and it really gets the job done (admittedly it does have RAS), all the usual bug bears are non-existent/imperceptible on track e.g. lag and throttle response etc. I have had quite few people comment on it (from track days) both in terms of how quick it is (and it is, timed by dorian, plus it is consistently quick), how hard it pulls and how effortless it looks round corners (even on P0N1 thanks to RAS).
I think the key is, this generation has really upped the ante - and the addition of RAS to the Carrera makes a very big difference to overall performance. In essence, you can in effect get a turbo charged GT3 (GTS) or a NA GT3 you can even get a reasonable range of tire choices. You can't lose
At the end of the day, the elephant in the room is where does Porsche go with NA - they have used all feasible tricks - compression ratio, various iterations of variocam, increased redline, increased capacity, DFI etc and must be close to maxing out a six cylinder boxer engine whilst maintaining reliability with sensible b and s. Interesting times.
@drdonger, as you see we agree. Still I guess we cant pay to much attention to what them magazines make In terms of laptime. But rather what we can make out of the cars. Hence the GTS is that close to a GT3 its out of this world, its never been this close before. And alot of GT3 owners will notice this on track I am sure.
I agree. Imagine the GTS with an exhaust and some MPSC2's? The gap is definitely closing due to the adding of Turbos. I really wish the GT3 had 20 ft/lb more torque throughout the rev range. At least they improved the overall torque curve.
Would have to be 4.3L for that and then wouldn't rev as high...
They could easilly have more than another 20 ft lbs through the low and mid range if they wanted, in fact I'd argue it'd be that way naturally if they were not intentionally limiting it. This is the nearly unavoidable result of stroking, as both engine sims and dynos will confirm.
When Porsche stroked the 997 RS 4.0 they found about 20 ft lbs over the 3.8 (and that car still has more low end torque than the new 9A1.5 4.0). When Sharkwerks did their 4.1 they used the 3.8 intake manifold rather than the 4.0's larger runners. As a result they found about 80 ft lbs over the 3.8. Results on stroked GT3 cup engines are similar. Torque is extremely easy to fined, but one can argue too much of it can actually ruin the powerband's feel. I'm sure that's the conclusion Porsche has come to.
But he said across the entire rev range - hard to do without more displacement in this case...
Top end is the only hard bit. Around 8250 they'll find ~10 lbs ft in the RS with no more displacement. 20 is pushing it, but technically I suspect it'd be possible- I'm betting the 9A1.5 has intentionally been limited to leave room for future improvement.
06-10-2017, 02:08 PM
but different. 
