McLaren Success
12-10-2020, 11:37 PM
#5971
Burning Brakes
Its apparent you don’t follow F1. Well ahead of Ferrari in constructor points this year with 1 race to go.
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neoprufrok (12-19-2020)
12-10-2020, 11:43 PM
#5972
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Saying you’re ahead of Ferrari in constructor points is sort of like saying you’re the tallest midget in the room.
Ferrari - that same F1 team with pit stops as fast as dripping molasses on a cold winter morning.
Last edited by ipse dixit; 12-10-2020 at 11:44 PM.
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12-11-2020, 12:03 AM
#5973
They are making strides, especially over the last 3 prior years. Their drivers aren't the best either. Danny might help, but he's also not World Champ material in my opinion, as much as I like him.
12-11-2020, 03:53 AM
#5974
Race Director
Originally Posted by ipse dixit
Saying you’re ahead of Ferrari in constructor points is sort of like saying you’re the tallest midget in the room.
.
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928cs (12-11-2020)
12-11-2020, 09:30 AM
#5975
Next year the McClaren will have the Mercedes engine. Along with Danny Ric and Lando, they may wrll be vying for 2nd/3rd place in the Constuctor’s Championship.
12-11-2020, 09:56 AM
#5976
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
MAC needs to figure out do they continue in F1 ......YTD F1 generated 98M with operating cost of 128M. Same time last year F1 generated 121M, and operating cost of 186M. With that said car sales generated 848M, and cleared 160M 19 margin selling 3306 cars. This year will lost money due to selling less than 900 cars due to Covid currently losing 127M.
12-11-2020, 11:23 AM
#5977
Rennlist Member
I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on McLaren, but I do understand finance, and I think what most people are mis-understanding is just how hard it is to be successful as a large, small scale manufacture.
I 100% disagree that McLaren shouldn't focus on cranking out more cars, because fixed costs are so high in this industry. Machine/tooling, the over-the-top facility itself, but probably most importantly, is the extreme R&D required for each of their cars. They have no technology partners, no platform sharing, state of the art electro-mechnicals that has to be custom tailored for each iteration, as well as nearly completely new panels between a 720S and 765LT....it's pure lunacy to try and amortize those production and development costs over small scale production that is relative low margin.....increasing the margin slightly at the expense of volume, you are going backwards because the fixed-costs are just too high.
Koenigsegg and Pagani can do it, because the margins are astronomically high, and while develpoment costs are high, production costs are low (it's actually cheaper to handbuild rather than spend hundreds of millions on a production line if you're only cranking out a few cars per year).....McLaren is stuck in between.....
Secondly, suggesting they need more special cars is exactly what is annoying to their customer, because there is always a new special Mac....they've hurt their own pricing power....they can't exclusive themselves into higher margins, or at least high enough to offset the massive development costs of all these "special" versions.
In short, it's not the per/unit profitability that's an issue, it's the high-fixed cost (F1, factory, cutting edge tech development).
^^^ you can justify all of that if there was a path to being a lifestyle brand, or as the Gen Z'ers would call it "Community"....but there is nothing to lean on there.....even Aston can't get any more runway out of Bond at this point.....Ferrari is the only successful brand in the space.....Porsche and Lambo both enjoy technology and platform support from VW for cost-control "synergies" and the brand just increases the margin.
So....IMO, there is only 1 path here, and it's focus on what their best at. Carbon Fiber......be the premium carbon fiber supplier....private jets, golf clubs, boat decks....i honestly don't know....some of it is custom solutions sold as a supplier (outsourced technology partner), but other's is premium solutions for co-branded luxury lifestyle (Taylor Made drivers with McLaren CF)......the car business then has synergies....you reduce your amortized costs somewhat, you get higher margin business in the custom supplier space, you get branding royalty (and sales) in the premium supplier space....and this all goes to help drive volumes for the non-special cars, making the business overall more profitable, and actually then being able to reward strong customers with "special" cars at margins high enough to justify their differentiated development cost. (i.e. a 720S should cost about $350k and a 765LT should cost about $575k, and they should sell 4:1 ratio)
Without know much more, a possible add-on is partnering with BMW again, being a technical performance advisor and CF supplier, and letting BMW provide engines....don't know the backstory on the partnership, but this is easiest path to credibility given legendary Mac F1 = BMW engine. F1 racing should probably be abandoned, but under my suggestions, i think profitability actually would allow for it to continue if it's an ego thing....or in the world of going where your competitors ain't, McLaren NASCAR entry in 2023
^^^ there, fixed it for them.....i'll take a used 675LT as consulting fee
I 100% disagree that McLaren shouldn't focus on cranking out more cars, because fixed costs are so high in this industry. Machine/tooling, the over-the-top facility itself, but probably most importantly, is the extreme R&D required for each of their cars. They have no technology partners, no platform sharing, state of the art electro-mechnicals that has to be custom tailored for each iteration, as well as nearly completely new panels between a 720S and 765LT....it's pure lunacy to try and amortize those production and development costs over small scale production that is relative low margin.....increasing the margin slightly at the expense of volume, you are going backwards because the fixed-costs are just too high.
Koenigsegg and Pagani can do it, because the margins are astronomically high, and while develpoment costs are high, production costs are low (it's actually cheaper to handbuild rather than spend hundreds of millions on a production line if you're only cranking out a few cars per year).....McLaren is stuck in between.....
Secondly, suggesting they need more special cars is exactly what is annoying to their customer, because there is always a new special Mac....they've hurt their own pricing power....they can't exclusive themselves into higher margins, or at least high enough to offset the massive development costs of all these "special" versions.
In short, it's not the per/unit profitability that's an issue, it's the high-fixed cost (F1, factory, cutting edge tech development).
^^^ you can justify all of that if there was a path to being a lifestyle brand, or as the Gen Z'ers would call it "Community"....but there is nothing to lean on there.....even Aston can't get any more runway out of Bond at this point.....Ferrari is the only successful brand in the space.....Porsche and Lambo both enjoy technology and platform support from VW for cost-control "synergies" and the brand just increases the margin.
So....IMO, there is only 1 path here, and it's focus on what their best at. Carbon Fiber......be the premium carbon fiber supplier....private jets, golf clubs, boat decks....i honestly don't know....some of it is custom solutions sold as a supplier (outsourced technology partner), but other's is premium solutions for co-branded luxury lifestyle (Taylor Made drivers with McLaren CF)......the car business then has synergies....you reduce your amortized costs somewhat, you get higher margin business in the custom supplier space, you get branding royalty (and sales) in the premium supplier space....and this all goes to help drive volumes for the non-special cars, making the business overall more profitable, and actually then being able to reward strong customers with "special" cars at margins high enough to justify their differentiated development cost. (i.e. a 720S should cost about $350k and a 765LT should cost about $575k, and they should sell 4:1 ratio)
Without know much more, a possible add-on is partnering with BMW again, being a technical performance advisor and CF supplier, and letting BMW provide engines....don't know the backstory on the partnership, but this is easiest path to credibility given legendary Mac F1 = BMW engine. F1 racing should probably be abandoned, but under my suggestions, i think profitability actually would allow for it to continue if it's an ego thing....or in the world of going where your competitors ain't, McLaren NASCAR entry in 2023
^^^ there, fixed it for them.....i'll take a used 675LT as consulting fee
Last edited by atlrvr; 12-11-2020 at 11:39 AM.
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12-11-2020, 11:26 AM
#5978
I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on McLaren, but I do understand finance, and I think what most people are mis-understanding is just how hard it is to be successful as a large, small scale manufacture.
I 100% disagree that McLaren shouldn't focus on cranking out more cars, because fixed costs are so high in this industry. Machine/tooling, the over-the-top facility itself, but probably most importantly, is the extreme R&D required for each of their cars. They have no technology partners, no platform sharing, state of the art electro-mechnicals that has to be custom tailored for each iteration, as well as nearly completely new panels between a 720S and 765LT....it's pure lunacy to try and amortize those production and development costs over small scale production that is relative low margin.....increasing the margin slightly at the expense of volume, you are going backwards because the fixed-costs are just too high.
Koenigsegg and Pagani can do it, because the margins are astronomically high, and while develpoment costs are high, production costs are low (it's actually cheaper to handbuild that spend hundreds of millions on a production line if you're only cranking out a few cars per year).....McLaren is stuck in between.....
Secondly, suggesting they need more special cars is exactly what is annoying to their customer, because there is always a new special Mac....they've hurt their own pricing power....they can't exclusive themselves into higher margins, or at least high enough to offset the massive development costs of all these "special" versions.
In short, it's not the per/unit profitability that's an issue, it's the high-fixed cost (F1, factory, cutting edge tech development).
^^^ you can justify all of that if there was a path to being a lifestyle brand, or as the Gen Z'ers would call it "Community"....but there is nothing to lean on there.....even Aston can't get any more runway out of Bond at this point.....Ferrari is the only successful brand in the space.....Porsche and Lambo both enjoy technology and platform support from VW for cost-control "synergies" and the brand just increases the margin.
So....IMO, there is only 1 path here, and it's focus on what their best at. Carbon Fiber......be the premium carbon fiber supplier....private jets, golf clubs, boat decks....i honestly don't know....some of it is custom solutions sold as a supplier (outsourced technology partner), but other's is premium solutions for co-branded luxury lifestyle (Taylor Made drivers with McLaren CF)......the car business then has synergies....you reduce your amortized costs somewhat, you get higher margin business in the custom supplier space, you get branding royalty (and sales) in the premium supplier space....and this all goes to help drive volumes for the non-special cars, making the business overall more profitable, and actually then being able to reward strong customers with "special" cars at margins high enough to justify their differentiated development cost. (i.e. a 720S should cost about $350k and a 765LT should cost about $575k, and they should sell 4:1 ratio)
Without know much more, a possible add-on is partnering with BMW again, being a technical performance advisor and CF supplier, and letting BMW provide engines....don't know the backstory on the partnership, but this is easiest path to credibility given legendary Mac F1 = BMW engine. F1 racing should probably be abandoned, but under my suggestions, i think profitability actually would allow for it to continue if it's an ego thing....or in the world of going where your competitors ain't, McLaren NASCAR entry in 2023
^^^ there, fixed it for them.....i'll take a used 675LT as consulting fee
I 100% disagree that McLaren shouldn't focus on cranking out more cars, because fixed costs are so high in this industry. Machine/tooling, the over-the-top facility itself, but probably most importantly, is the extreme R&D required for each of their cars. They have no technology partners, no platform sharing, state of the art electro-mechnicals that has to be custom tailored for each iteration, as well as nearly completely new panels between a 720S and 765LT....it's pure lunacy to try and amortize those production and development costs over small scale production that is relative low margin.....increasing the margin slightly at the expense of volume, you are going backwards because the fixed-costs are just too high.
Koenigsegg and Pagani can do it, because the margins are astronomically high, and while develpoment costs are high, production costs are low (it's actually cheaper to handbuild that spend hundreds of millions on a production line if you're only cranking out a few cars per year).....McLaren is stuck in between.....
Secondly, suggesting they need more special cars is exactly what is annoying to their customer, because there is always a new special Mac....they've hurt their own pricing power....they can't exclusive themselves into higher margins, or at least high enough to offset the massive development costs of all these "special" versions.
In short, it's not the per/unit profitability that's an issue, it's the high-fixed cost (F1, factory, cutting edge tech development).
^^^ you can justify all of that if there was a path to being a lifestyle brand, or as the Gen Z'ers would call it "Community"....but there is nothing to lean on there.....even Aston can't get any more runway out of Bond at this point.....Ferrari is the only successful brand in the space.....Porsche and Lambo both enjoy technology and platform support from VW for cost-control "synergies" and the brand just increases the margin.
So....IMO, there is only 1 path here, and it's focus on what their best at. Carbon Fiber......be the premium carbon fiber supplier....private jets, golf clubs, boat decks....i honestly don't know....some of it is custom solutions sold as a supplier (outsourced technology partner), but other's is premium solutions for co-branded luxury lifestyle (Taylor Made drivers with McLaren CF)......the car business then has synergies....you reduce your amortized costs somewhat, you get higher margin business in the custom supplier space, you get branding royalty (and sales) in the premium supplier space....and this all goes to help drive volumes for the non-special cars, making the business overall more profitable, and actually then being able to reward strong customers with "special" cars at margins high enough to justify their differentiated development cost. (i.e. a 720S should cost about $350k and a 765LT should cost about $575k, and they should sell 4:1 ratio)
Without know much more, a possible add-on is partnering with BMW again, being a technical performance advisor and CF supplier, and letting BMW provide engines....don't know the backstory on the partnership, but this is easiest path to credibility given legendary Mac F1 = BMW engine. F1 racing should probably be abandoned, but under my suggestions, i think profitability actually would allow for it to continue if it's an ego thing....or in the world of going where your competitors ain't, McLaren NASCAR entry in 2023
^^^ there, fixed it for them.....i'll take a used 675LT as consulting fee
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cadster (12-12-2020)
12-11-2020, 11:55 AM
#5979
Race Director
I just sent atlrvrna friend request because he's wicked smart and I want to be notified when he posts. I don't even know what a friend request does.
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cadster (12-12-2020)
12-11-2020, 12:57 PM
#5980
Drifting
~
12-11-2020, 01:06 PM
#5981
Rennlist Member
12-11-2020, 03:37 PM
#5982
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Bingo, can’t cut your way out that doesn’t cover all the cost. When they produced over 3000 cars they were profitable, and very close to 20% is not small margins. Well said by the way.
12-11-2020, 05:21 PM
#5983
Nordschleife Master
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AlexCeres (12-21-2020)
12-11-2020, 07:47 PM
#5985
Rennlist Member
$100k at 12% annual rate secured by a Speedster, absolutely I do!