McLaren Success
05-26-2020 | 12:45 PM
#5071
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 346
Likes: 59
From: West Palm Beach FL
Originally Posted by rodsky
This is all getting silly. Does anyone know how hard it is to build a succesful car Company making 250K+ cars that are reliable, perform amazingly etc. Ferrari didnt really do that until arguably the 458 and that was 50+ years into their history. Lambo's were crap until recently. Mac is in their 10 year range (the 12C was really the start of the journey) and is putting out amazing cars. To the point where people are picking them over Ferrari and Porsche and Lamborghini (see 600LT, 675LT, 720S, and soon to be 765LT). And they are now dealing with the worst economy since 1929. Arm chair quarterbacks on Rennlist telling them what race series to be in etc. Saying they arent doing well etc. They were doing fine until March of this year and now they arent.. They have probably had some reliability issues but on whole pretty good for 10 years. I dont understand why people feel they have to knock them and say their customer service is bad. Actually mostly non-owners that are doing that. Which is amazing when you think about it. People who have never been customers knocking their customer service. Isnt the internet amazing. Most customers (some on here) argue the other way. i know who i'd listen to. A customer vs a non-customer.
Porsche is an amazing sports car manufacturer. Arguably the best. They have been at it for 60+years. But not without their blemishes. They didnt just jump in and back the .1 GT3 engines. it took a lot of 3rd party actions to get them to do so (see Robmypro and his actions). Remember IMS/RMS and so forth. So lets appreciate the marques for what they both bring to the table.
Porsche is an amazing sports car manufacturer. Arguably the best. They have been at it for 60+years. But not without their blemishes. They didnt just jump in and back the .1 GT3 engines. it took a lot of 3rd party actions to get them to do so (see Robmypro and his actions). Remember IMS/RMS and so forth. So lets appreciate the marques for what they both bring to the table.
Bottom line is satisfied enthusiasts enjoy and complainers complain.
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neoprufrok (05-27-2020)
05-26-2020 | 04:12 PM
#5073
Thread Starter
Nordschleife Master
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,304
Likes: 2,100
Guys this just the start of this mess, and capital markets are drying up as many company’s looking for liquidity. Hell Boeing just borrowed 25B, and cutting staff/engineers. This is much bigger than a MAC problem ...look at Nissan below.
https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2...-pandemic.html
https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2...-pandemic.html
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AlexCeres (05-27-2020)
05-26-2020 | 07:32 PM
#5074
Racer
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 389
Likes: 96
The feeling that I have is that once we are out of this Covid-19 crisis and the economy is showing constant growth again for certain period of time I would have to buy a preonwed Mac.
The 600LT made such a great impression on me after the testdrive last year that I can’t stop thinking of it.
Those are offered now in Germany for 200K euro ($220K) already for a 1 year old car with 6000 miles or so.
If I am to be aiming at 600LT I would rather wait until those have the major depreciation hit. So I presume the car should be 2 years old and might be in the range of 160K euro ($175K) by that time.
Otherwise if not looking specifically at LT and go with a modest option, then the current prices for 570S being offered for 130K euro ($140K) for a 2 year old car is such a great deal that I can hardly see any alternative to it.
The 600LT made such a great impression on me after the testdrive last year that I can’t stop thinking of it.
Those are offered now in Germany for 200K euro ($220K) already for a 1 year old car with 6000 miles or so.
If I am to be aiming at 600LT I would rather wait until those have the major depreciation hit. So I presume the car should be 2 years old and might be in the range of 160K euro ($175K) by that time.
Otherwise if not looking specifically at LT and go with a modest option, then the current prices for 570S being offered for 130K euro ($140K) for a 2 year old car is such a great deal that I can hardly see any alternative to it.
05-26-2020 | 07:52 PM
#5075
Racer
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 250
Likes: 9
A gently used Mac at a decent discount would be a great addition to my GT3. There really is no competition at their market price right now. I was *THIS* close to trading my GT3 for a 570s exactly a year ago, but I'm realizing adding is the only way for me. I dunno why everyone's getting their azz hairs in a knot over car companies and their perceptions. Buy what you like and drive the hell out of them. No one can make that decision for you except for yourself. Opinions based on personal ownership experience is what I look for in threads like this and I thank everyone for their non-biased opinions with their Macs!
I hope everyone is staying safe through these times.
05-26-2020 | 08:03 PM
#5076
Racer
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 389
Likes: 96
You and me both A gently used Mac at a decent discount would be a great addition to my GT3. There really is no competition at their market price right now. I was *THIS* close to trading my GT3 for a 570s exactly a year ago, but I'm realizing adding is the only way for me.
I dunno why everyone's getting their azz hairs in a knot over car companies and their perceptions. Buy what you like and drive the hell out of them. No one can make that decision for you except for yourself. Opinions based on personal ownership experience is what I look for in threads like this and I thank everyone for their non-biased opinions with their Macs!
I hope everyone is staying safe through these times.
A gently used Mac at a decent discount would be a great addition to my GT3. There really is no competition at their market price right now. I was *THIS* close to trading my GT3 for a 570s exactly a year ago, but I'm realizing adding is the only way for me.I dunno why everyone's getting their azz hairs in a knot over car companies and their perceptions. Buy what you like and drive the hell out of them. No one can make that decision for you except for yourself. Opinions based on personal ownership experience is what I look for in threads like this and I thank everyone for their non-biased opinions with their Macs!
I hope everyone is staying safe through these times.
Fully in agreement.
Mac should be IN ADDITION not INSTEAD.
05-26-2020 | 09:31 PM
#5077
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,435
Likes: 818
From: Central New Jersey
Thank you... The tone of this thread is being set by only a handful of individuals (some may own a Mac but others certainly do not). The fact is that as an owner myself I have had no significant issues with any of my previous 3 macs. None that would stand above any of the issues I've had with my previous Porsches. In fact I have a handful of friends who own macs who would would report the same. Like most exotic car owners though, they don't have the time to verbalize their praise for their cars here.
Bottom line is satisfied enthusiasts enjoy and complainers complain.
Bottom line is satisfied enthusiasts enjoy and complainers complain.
Even Dealers have pointed to continued quality issues.
Facts don’t care about emotions.
If some wish to lay out the argument that the overall perception of Mac is great or even good I’m all ears. I think it’s a tough roe to hough but make your argument. Maybe I’ll be convinced.
And I do not doubt many there are many Mac owners that love their cars. Hell, I like them. Unfortunately, the complainers whether in the majority or minority of owners won the day and poisoned the punch bowl.
Only Mac can change that.
05-26-2020 | 09:58 PM
#5078
Race Car
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,558
Likes: 512
On a related issue, with McLaren laying off 1200 people, which suggests the workforce was previously bloated, I'm surprised that senior management is still employed. Aston, on the other hand, facing similar issues, has terminated Mr. Palmer, it's CEO.
05-26-2020 | 10:00 PM
#5079
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,247
Likes: 281
From: In the garage
The people on here who make assumptions with regards to Mac ownership and reliability Who don’t own one or never have are of the same value of the the current crowd talking about treatments/vaccines for Covid-19 who have never treated a patient and no understanding of clinical data.
It’s getting absurd.
It’s getting absurd.
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zim32 (05-26-2020)
05-26-2020 | 10:12 PM
#5080
Race Car
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,558
Likes: 512
Indeed, as one looks back at the termination of Martin Whitmarsh of the F1 Team and Antony Sheriff of McLaren Automotive, and the millions of pounds that they were reportedly paid to leave, one wonders what they knew.
05-26-2020 | 10:16 PM
#5081
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,795
Likes: 202
From: CHI / ATL
Do you think that Palmer’s fate was sealed when the Yew Tree consortium made its initial capital injection? Or only more recently?
05-26-2020 | 10:25 PM
#5082
Pro
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 608
Likes: 73
The tone of this thread is fine. The issue is some get pissed at the messenger pointing out the truth which hurts. Public perception of Macs is not good.
Even Dealers have pointed to continued quality issues.
Facts don’t care about emotions.
If some wish to lay out the argument that the overall perception of Mac is great or even good I’m all ears. I think it’s a tough roe to hough but make your argument. Maybe I’ll be convinced.
And I do not doubt many there are many Mac owners that love their cars. Hell, I like them. Unfortunately, the complainers whether in the majority or minority of owners won the day and poisoned the punch bowl.
Only Mac can change that.
Even Dealers have pointed to continued quality issues.
Facts don’t care about emotions.
If some wish to lay out the argument that the overall perception of Mac is great or even good I’m all ears. I think it’s a tough roe to hough but make your argument. Maybe I’ll be convinced.
And I do not doubt many there are many Mac owners that love their cars. Hell, I like them. Unfortunately, the complainers whether in the majority or minority of owners won the day and poisoned the punch bowl.
Only Mac can change that.
Last edited by FLGT; 05-26-2020 at 11:06 PM.
05-26-2020 | 11:11 PM
#5083
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 346
Likes: 59
From: West Palm Beach FL
Originally Posted by Waxer
The tone of this thread is fine. The issue is some get pissed at the messenger pointing out the truth which hurts. Public perception of Macs is not good.
Even Dealers have pointed to continued quality issues.
Facts don’t care about emotions.
If some wish to lay out the argument that the overall perception of Mac is great or even good I’m all ears. I think it’s a tough roe to hough but make your argument. Maybe I’ll be convinced.
And I do not doubt many there are many Mac owners that love their cars. Hell, I like them. Unfortunately, the complainers whether in the majority or minority of owners won the day and poisoned the punch bowl.
Only Mac can change that.
Even Dealers have pointed to continued quality issues.
Facts don’t care about emotions.
If some wish to lay out the argument that the overall perception of Mac is great or even good I’m all ears. I think it’s a tough roe to hough but make your argument. Maybe I’ll be convinced.
And I do not doubt many there are many Mac owners that love their cars. Hell, I like them. Unfortunately, the complainers whether in the majority or minority of owners won the day and poisoned the punch bowl.
Only Mac can change that.
No need to change anything. Carry on and those that can survive this recession will be even stronger on the other side.
If you don't like depreciation, buy a house instead of a car
If you don't like paying for extended warranty, buy a VW
The only thing that never breaks is night. (Some will get it, many won't).
05-26-2020 | 11:18 PM
#5084
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,040
Likes: 881
From: West Los Angeles & Truckee, CA
So was United or American Airlines bloated in February or Ruth's Chris or pick any Company that suddenly sees a drop of 20% to 90% of their revenues. Why would we assume management is a problem - in all cases?