OT: AMG GT R
12-18-2016, 12:46 AM
#137
The problem with the GTR is it cant do it lap after lap (heat issues), so not a great car for people wanting to track regularly.
In any case, I have no interest in either (has to be a manual for me), just explaining why people focus on lap times.
In any case, I have no interest in either (has to be a manual for me), just explaining why people focus on lap times.
12-18-2016, 01:23 AM
#138
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12-18-2016, 01:25 AM
#139
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since this will be my first porsche. Maybe im not as touchy feely about another manufacturer making a car that runs a track i will never be on faster than the one i have on order. I ordered the car for the sound, the revs, and the whole experience. Maybe im the crazy one. If you offered me a gtr merc right now for free i would still rather be waiting for delivery of my rs.
Its called competition. In the 100 meter sprint, everyone talks about the winner, not who came second. The gt3 RS has had a lot of money poured into it so that it can achieve quick lap times. It's very important for the brand. As soon as you concede that it's not about speed / lap times, you have to question a lot of what makes the RS what it is. The wing on the tail makes it hard to see out the back, the front splitter scrapes all the time, pdk makes it less fun to shift etc.
I have no doubt Porsche will have taken note of that lap time and will also be conscious that the black series is still to come.
I have no doubt Porsche will have taken note of that lap time and will also be conscious that the black series is still to come.
And to take the analogy one step further, no one picks the "best" 100M runner based on the shoes their wearing, or the size of their biceps. It's all about time from 0M to 100M.
12-18-2016, 01:26 AM
#140
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AMG GT R and GT3/RS have nothing in common and shouldn t be compared
personally a 4.4 NA rear engine
(or a 3.8 NA 9k revving plus hybrid torque boosting)
gives better overall feeling than any front mounted engine
the real kick in the *** (eventually)
would come if next GT2 RS
is not equal or better than 7.10s on the Ring when driven by a non factory driver
but i don t care bc i don t like turbos
personally a 4.4 NA rear engine
(or a 3.8 NA 9k revving plus hybrid torque boosting)
gives better overall feeling than any front mounted engine
the real kick in the *** (eventually)
would come if next GT2 RS
is not equal or better than 7.10s on the Ring when driven by a non factory driver
but i don t care bc i don t like turbos
12-18-2016, 01:32 AM
#141
12-18-2016, 01:36 AM
#142
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But the lap time that the GT R set on the 'Ring versus its predecessors is not just evolutionary, but revolutionary. Sort of like Bonds hitting 73 home runs in a single year. It didn't just break the Maris/McGwire/Sosa barrier, but shattered it.
12-18-2016, 04:05 AM
#143
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N-ring time is a good measure or a car's performance (even if you never will drive that track), and the GT R's lap looks extraordinary fast. Does not mean it's the most fun to drive, but you can apply exactly the same argument to the RS.
12-18-2016, 05:10 AM
#145
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Agree that improvement is what evolution brings us.
But the lap time that the GT R set on the 'Ring versus its predecessors is not just evolutionary, but revolutionary. Sort of like Bonds hitting 73 home runs in a single year. It didn't just break the Maris/McGwire/Sosa barrier, but shattered it.
But the lap time that the GT R set on the 'Ring versus its predecessors is not just evolutionary, but revolutionary. Sort of like Bonds hitting 73 home runs in a single year. It didn't just break the Maris/McGwire/Sosa barrier, but shattered it.
12-18-2016, 05:58 AM
#146
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Laptime is one thing having fun is another thing.
How come so many Porsche Turbo guys switch to GT3/GT3RS even though the Turbo is faster?
I don't know the answer, never driven a Turbo.
BTW: I'm not saying the GT R is not fun.
I find it interesting that many of us buy these car without driving the car - not even on street - we just hope that it is the right car for how we want to use it.
One thing that think is important when driving on the Ring is how many laps you can do before car is overheating.
Nissan: 2 laps (Guesstimate)
BMW: 2 laps (Guesstimate)
AMG GT R: ?
Porsche GT3/RS: Never
Imagine doing two laps, getting into the mood, coming back to the pits just to see your best friend go onto the track and not being able to join because the car can't handle it?
How come so many Porsche Turbo guys switch to GT3/GT3RS even though the Turbo is faster?
I don't know the answer, never driven a Turbo.
BTW: I'm not saying the GT R is not fun.
I find it interesting that many of us buy these car without driving the car - not even on street - we just hope that it is the right car for how we want to use it.
One thing that think is important when driving on the Ring is how many laps you can do before car is overheating.
Nissan: 2 laps (Guesstimate)
BMW: 2 laps (Guesstimate)
AMG GT R: ?
Porsche GT3/RS: Never
Imagine doing two laps, getting into the mood, coming back to the pits just to see your best friend go onto the track and not being able to join because the car can't handle it?
12-18-2016, 06:04 AM
#147
One thing that think is important when driving on the Ring is how many laps you can do before car is overheating.
Nissan: 2 laps (Guesstimate)
BMW: 2 laps (Guesstimate)
AMG GT R: ?
Porsche GT3/RS: Never
Imagine doing two laps, getting into the mood, coming back to the pits just to see your best friend go onto the track and not being able to join because the car can't handle it?
Nissan: 2 laps (Guesstimate)
BMW: 2 laps (Guesstimate)
AMG GT R: ?
Porsche GT3/RS: Never
Imagine doing two laps, getting into the mood, coming back to the pits just to see your best friend go onto the track and not being able to join because the car can't handle it?
12-18-2016, 06:35 AM
#148
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12-18-2016, 11:20 AM
#149
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If the GT-R proves to be durable on track, IMO Mercedes has delivered quite a blow to Porsche, considering that this car is significantly faster than the RS on track, is comfortable enough to be a daily driver, has decent storage space, has more flexibility with settings than Porsches, is priced similar to the RS, looks to be more readily available than Porsches, has the German engineering that many of us appreciate, and the reviews so far indicate that it's a hoot to drive.
And let's not forget the engine issue with the Porsches, and the fact that the warranty for the '15 and later cars gives Porsche an out to deny coverage if the car has been tracked.
I'm glad that another manufacturer, especially a German one, has stepped up and presented serious competition to Porsche for track cars in the $100K to $200K price range (again, assuming the GT-R is durable on track, otherwise Porsche still just about has a monopoly).
And let's not forget the engine issue with the Porsches, and the fact that the warranty for the '15 and later cars gives Porsche an out to deny coverage if the car has been tracked.
I'm glad that another manufacturer, especially a German one, has stepped up and presented serious competition to Porsche for track cars in the $100K to $200K price range (again, assuming the GT-R is durable on track, otherwise Porsche still just about has a monopoly).
12-18-2016, 02:39 PM
#150
In this case, a lap time by itself does not really matter. The lap time relative to another car provides an idea of the car's engineering and value. Few buyers could set a record lap time in any of these cars but the lap times still give a sense of what you are purchasing from an engineering and value stand point.
A lap time does not provide in depth knowledge of a car or tell you anything about the experience it provides. A car with a completely miserable driving experience could set lap times far faster than anything in its price range. On the other hand, an incredibly fun car could set very slow lap times relative to its competition.
Lap times can validate or invalidate your notions about certain aspects of a car, most notably its performance. If two equally priced cars have very different lap times you are, in some ways, getting more for your money if you purchase the faster car. The slower car may have some qualitative factors that make it more enjoyable to drive, so in other ways you are getting more if you buy the slower car. It comes down to your viewpoint and what you value.
In the end, people just enjoy talking about the fastest car out or the fastest car they like. Lap times are often just something people find fun to talk about because, after all, cars are just a hobby for most people here.
A lap time does not provide in depth knowledge of a car or tell you anything about the experience it provides. A car with a completely miserable driving experience could set lap times far faster than anything in its price range. On the other hand, an incredibly fun car could set very slow lap times relative to its competition.
Lap times can validate or invalidate your notions about certain aspects of a car, most notably its performance. If two equally priced cars have very different lap times you are, in some ways, getting more for your money if you purchase the faster car. The slower car may have some qualitative factors that make it more enjoyable to drive, so in other ways you are getting more if you buy the slower car. It comes down to your viewpoint and what you value.
In the end, people just enjoy talking about the fastest car out or the fastest car they like. Lap times are often just something people find fun to talk about because, after all, cars are just a hobby for most people here.
What was evident to me was how easy he made that lap time. And this is a Benchmark track make no mistake. Benchmark are not just a lap time IMO.