991.2 GT3 Paris 1-16 October official presentation
11-01-2016, 07:52 PM
#617
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Will the economy be as strong as it was during the 991.1 GT3/RS run? Maybe. Will the flippers be as aggressive next time around? Maybe. There are currently 185 used 991.1 GT3/RS on cars.com. That strikes me as a fairly big number....
https://www.cars.com/for-sale/search...Source=UTILITY
https://www.cars.com/for-sale/search...Source=UTILITY
11-01-2016, 08:30 PM
#618
Race Director
Porsche does not flippantly adjust pricing based on the American economy, to think that somehow our financial fluctuations affect world pricing is miopic. If anything, German economy is in the tank, and Europe in general.. but again, prices have never moved based on that.
Also, porsche does not price according to sunk investment/cost, it prices relative to horsepower within the model range. It cares about the relative value proposition above all else.. they don't try to take advantage of higher demand to make a few extra bucks.. that would screw up a lifetime of carefully layered and programmed product differentiation strategies to sell us 10's of different iterations of the same car. Genius doesn't think short-term.
Porsche Price increases follow a pattern, as they always have, with a tight correlation between models. Now, considering the strength of the dollar, we might see a relative softening across the range as our purchasing power has increased relative to the euro, but this is not GT3-specific, it's European automobile specific if anything.
As we've seen many times, country prices keep a correlation which doesn't fluctuate much relatively (countries have differential pricing, but it stays consistent).
Also, porsche does not price according to sunk investment/cost, it prices relative to horsepower within the model range. It cares about the relative value proposition above all else.. they don't try to take advantage of higher demand to make a few extra bucks.. that would screw up a lifetime of carefully layered and programmed product differentiation strategies to sell us 10's of different iterations of the same car. Genius doesn't think short-term.
Porsche Price increases follow a pattern, as they always have, with a tight correlation between models. Now, considering the strength of the dollar, we might see a relative softening across the range as our purchasing power has increased relative to the euro, but this is not GT3-specific, it's European automobile specific if anything.
As we've seen many times, country prices keep a correlation which doesn't fluctuate much relatively (countries have differential pricing, but it stays consistent).
11-01-2016, 08:53 PM
#619
Three Wheelin'
^ agree with above. The only fly in the argument is that VAG's financial situation could call for squeezing every penny possible on the revenue side. If that is the case larger than traditional pricing changes could become reality. Regardless we will see an increase and not a small one.
11-01-2016, 09:26 PM
#620
Rennlist Member
Well said Alex. I might add the pricing paragdigm is not only marketing and fiscally driven within PAG but also has to pay hommage to competitor product pricing for category and segment to ensure PAG products are positioned appropriately. In this regard, I think mist will agree PAG products have always represented very good value when you look at the sports car market as a whole. Probably less so for SUV and Large luxury 4 door market, but those markets are wide and deep with alot of qualitative components unlike the sports car market which is relatively quantitative (number of seats, horse power, transmission choice, 0-60, Ring time, engine capacity, fuel type, size and performance/handling).
Its a complex subject.
My view is that we saw a comparatively large increase in price last time around (2013). This probably reflects to some degree a generational jump and a technology one too (remember the 991.1 GT3 & RS were provisioned with a PDK-S transmission, RWS and electronic diff by mandate - two items which would typically cost over $5000 in additional options for a 911 range car!).
If they are offering the 991.2 GT3 with MT as standard and mechanical differential I believe the price will very only marginally from the outgoing 991.1 GT3. My best guess is we will see a list price of $139K USD. Of course adding a LWFC may cost you another $3K but thats another topic.
For a PDK-S equipped car (assumes eletro diff) I expect the base price will clime to $145K. So for like to like comparison with 2013 model we are talking a 7.5% increase in price as this is inter generational (i.e. facelift).
Its a complex subject.
My view is that we saw a comparatively large increase in price last time around (2013). This probably reflects to some degree a generational jump and a technology one too (remember the 991.1 GT3 & RS were provisioned with a PDK-S transmission, RWS and electronic diff by mandate - two items which would typically cost over $5000 in additional options for a 911 range car!).
If they are offering the 991.2 GT3 with MT as standard and mechanical differential I believe the price will very only marginally from the outgoing 991.1 GT3. My best guess is we will see a list price of $139K USD. Of course adding a LWFC may cost you another $3K but thats another topic.
For a PDK-S equipped car (assumes eletro diff) I expect the base price will clime to $145K. So for like to like comparison with 2013 model we are talking a 7.5% increase in price as this is inter generational (i.e. facelift).
11-01-2016, 09:31 PM
#621
Porsche does not flippantly adjust pricing based on the American economy, to think that somehow our financial fluctuations affect world pricing is miopic. If anything, German economy is in the tank, and Europe in general.. but again, prices have never moved based on that.
Also, porsche does not price according to sunk investment/cost, it prices relative to horsepower within the model range. It cares about the relative value proposition above all else.. they don't try to take advantage of higher demand to make a few extra bucks.. that would screw up a lifetime of carefully layered and programmed product differentiation strategies to sell us 10's of different iterations of the same car. Genius doesn't think short-term.
Porsche Price increases follow a pattern, as they always have, with a tight correlation between models. Now, considering the strength of the dollar, we might see a relative softening across the range as our purchasing power has increased relative to the euro, but this is not GT3-specific, it's European automobile specific if anything.
As we've seen many times, country prices keep a correlation which doesn't fluctuate much relatively (countries have differential pricing, but it stays consistent).
Also, porsche does not price according to sunk investment/cost, it prices relative to horsepower within the model range. It cares about the relative value proposition above all else.. they don't try to take advantage of higher demand to make a few extra bucks.. that would screw up a lifetime of carefully layered and programmed product differentiation strategies to sell us 10's of different iterations of the same car. Genius doesn't think short-term.
Porsche Price increases follow a pattern, as they always have, with a tight correlation between models. Now, considering the strength of the dollar, we might see a relative softening across the range as our purchasing power has increased relative to the euro, but this is not GT3-specific, it's European automobile specific if anything.
As we've seen many times, country prices keep a correlation which doesn't fluctuate much relatively (countries have differential pricing, but it stays consistent).
11-01-2016, 11:00 PM
#622
Rennlist Member
If they really want to up the ante with the new 991.2 GT3 they will fit it with 265 front and 325 rear tyres (i.e. make the rims wider). These should fit with a slightly altered front guard liner behind the new bumper. With the extra front lip downforce and the slightly higher rear wing we have seen and combined with the extra torque of the 4.0L RS engine and some slight tweaks to RWS, suspension geometry and EPS calibration they will then have a car thats comparable in outright lap times to the outgoing 991.1 GT3RS....
11-01-2016, 11:06 PM
#623
Platinum Dealership
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many moons ago I made a bet with someone here on RL that the MSRP would break 150k. I am still sticking with that assumption, assuming there is a larger pool of included content...which is really a genius way that Audi and some other companies have played with MSRP increases in justification.
nav included!
ceramics included! (ferrari move)
rear wheel steering included!
nav included!
ceramics included! (ferrari move)
rear wheel steering included!
11-01-2016, 11:12 PM
#624
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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My comment above related to how many they'd make and how easily they'd move.
As regards Porsche prices following a pattern, or being tightly correlated to power increases in subsequent models, or the company not factoring in the relative strength of the economy when setting MSRP policy, the evidence would suggest otherwise. What I see shows evidence of opportunistic pricing that is more likely related to the state of the global economy at the time and as Macca says where they see the value proposition relative to competitor pricing and product offerings.
996 GT3 3.6 380 HP -->$100K
997.1 GT3 3.6 415 HP --> $106k +6% Price; +9% HP
997.2 GT3 3.8 435 HP $112K +6%Pr; +5% HP
991.1 GT3 3.8 475 HP $134K +20% Pr; +9% HP
996 GT3 RS 3.6 400 HP --> $ NA
997.1 GT3 RS 3.6 415 HP $123K +?; +4%
997.2 GT3 RS 3.8 450 HP $133k +8% Pr; +8% HP
991.1 RS 4.0 500hp HP $178k +34% Pr; +11% HP
As regards Porsche prices following a pattern, or being tightly correlated to power increases in subsequent models, or the company not factoring in the relative strength of the economy when setting MSRP policy, the evidence would suggest otherwise. What I see shows evidence of opportunistic pricing that is more likely related to the state of the global economy at the time and as Macca says where they see the value proposition relative to competitor pricing and product offerings.
996 GT3 3.6 380 HP -->$100K
997.1 GT3 3.6 415 HP --> $106k +6% Price; +9% HP
997.2 GT3 3.8 435 HP $112K +6%Pr; +5% HP
991.1 GT3 3.8 475 HP $134K +20% Pr; +9% HP
996 GT3 RS 3.6 400 HP --> $ NA
997.1 GT3 RS 3.6 415 HP $123K +?; +4%
997.2 GT3 RS 3.8 450 HP $133k +8% Pr; +8% HP
991.1 RS 4.0 500hp HP $178k +34% Pr; +11% HP
Last edited by Nizer; 11-02-2016 at 08:35 AM.
11-01-2016, 11:12 PM
#625
Drifting
Delete
Last edited by Mr. Adair; 11-01-2016 at 11:34 PM.
11-01-2016, 11:22 PM
#626
My comment above related to how many they'd make and how easily they'd move.
As regards Porsche prices following a pattern, or being tightly correlated to power increases in subsequent models, or the company not factoring in the relative strength of the economy when setting MSRP policy, the evidence would suggest otherwise. What I see shows more evidence of opportunistic pricing that is more likely related to the state of the global economy at the time and as Macca says where they see the value proposition relative to competitor pricing and product offerings.
996 GT3 3.6 380 HP -->$100K
997.1 GT3 3.6 415 HP --> $106k +6% Price; +9% HP
997.2 GT3 3.8 435 HP $112K +6%Pr; +5% HP
991.1 GT3 3.8 475 HP $134K +20% Pr; +9% HP
996 GT3 RS 3.6 400 HP --> $ NA
997.1 GT3 RS 3.6 415 HP $123K +?; +4%
997.2 GT3 RS 3.8 450 HP $133k +8% Pr; +8% HP
991.1 RS 4.0 500hp HP $178k +34% Pr; +11% HP
As regards Porsche prices following a pattern, or being tightly correlated to power increases in subsequent models, or the company not factoring in the relative strength of the economy when setting MSRP policy, the evidence would suggest otherwise. What I see shows more evidence of opportunistic pricing that is more likely related to the state of the global economy at the time and as Macca says where they see the value proposition relative to competitor pricing and product offerings.
996 GT3 3.6 380 HP -->$100K
997.1 GT3 3.6 415 HP --> $106k +6% Price; +9% HP
997.2 GT3 3.8 435 HP $112K +6%Pr; +5% HP
991.1 GT3 3.8 475 HP $134K +20% Pr; +9% HP
996 GT3 RS 3.6 400 HP --> $ NA
997.1 GT3 RS 3.6 415 HP $123K +?; +4%
997.2 GT3 RS 3.8 450 HP $133k +8% Pr; +8% HP
991.1 RS 4.0 500hp HP $178k +34% Pr; +11% HP
Don't see a reason for Porsche to leave any money on the table. With the 4.0l engine and how popular these cars are it will be a $145-150k base price.
And expect to see a higher percentage of cars hitting US shores. Stuttgart is making another 10% on the dollar-euro conversion as well.
11-01-2016, 11:53 PM
#627
Rennlist Member
many moons ago I made a bet with someone here on RL that the MSRP would break 150k. I am still sticking with that assumption, assuming there is a larger pool of included content...which is really a genius way that Audi and some other companies have played with MSRP increases in justification.
nav included!
ceramics included! (ferrari move)
rear wheel steering included!
nav included!
ceramics included! (ferrari move)
rear wheel steering included!
I can't find the forbes article that covered the ownership of Porsche and the infighting among the remaining family members, but it basically said its only a matter of time till the last few stewards of the "old porsche" are gone.
11-02-2016, 12:26 AM
#629
11-02-2016, 02:07 AM
#630
Rennlist Member
many moons ago I made a bet with someone here on RL that the MSRP would break 150k. I am still sticking with that assumption, assuming there is a larger pool of included content...which is really a genius way that Audi and some other companies have played with MSRP increases in justification.
I hope you plan to play long enough for me to collect........