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991.2 GT3 Paris 1-16 October official presentation

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Old 11-01-2016, 07:42 PM
  #616  
bronson7
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Whatever the price increase is, Porsche will sell all that they make. That is a definite.
Old 11-01-2016, 07:52 PM
  #617  
Nizer
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Will the economy be as strong as it was during the 991.1 GT3/RS run? Maybe. Will the flippers be as aggressive next time around? Maybe. There are currently 185 used 991.1 GT3/RS on cars.com. That strikes me as a fairly big number....

https://www.cars.com/for-sale/search...Source=UTILITY
Old 11-01-2016, 08:30 PM
  #618  
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Porsche does not flippantly adjust pricing based on the American economy, to think that somehow our financial fluctuations affect world pricing is miopic. If anything, German economy is in the tank, and Europe in general.. but again, prices have never moved based on that.

Also, porsche does not price according to sunk investment/cost, it prices relative to horsepower within the model range. It cares about the relative value proposition above all else.. they don't try to take advantage of higher demand to make a few extra bucks.. that would screw up a lifetime of carefully layered and programmed product differentiation strategies to sell us 10's of different iterations of the same car. Genius doesn't think short-term.

Porsche Price increases follow a pattern, as they always have, with a tight correlation between models. Now, considering the strength of the dollar, we might see a relative softening across the range as our purchasing power has increased relative to the euro, but this is not GT3-specific, it's European automobile specific if anything.

As we've seen many times, country prices keep a correlation which doesn't fluctuate much relatively (countries have differential pricing, but it stays consistent).
Old 11-01-2016, 08:53 PM
  #619  
Just in time
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^ agree with above. The only fly in the argument is that VAG's financial situation could call for squeezing every penny possible on the revenue side. If that is the case larger than traditional pricing changes could become reality. Regardless we will see an increase and not a small one.
Old 11-01-2016, 09:26 PM
  #620  
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Well said Alex. I might add the pricing paragdigm is not only marketing and fiscally driven within PAG but also has to pay hommage to competitor product pricing for category and segment to ensure PAG products are positioned appropriately. In this regard, I think mist will agree PAG products have always represented very good value when you look at the sports car market as a whole. Probably less so for SUV and Large luxury 4 door market, but those markets are wide and deep with alot of qualitative components unlike the sports car market which is relatively quantitative (number of seats, horse power, transmission choice, 0-60, Ring time, engine capacity, fuel type, size and performance/handling).

Its a complex subject.

My view is that we saw a comparatively large increase in price last time around (2013). This probably reflects to some degree a generational jump and a technology one too (remember the 991.1 GT3 & RS were provisioned with a PDK-S transmission, RWS and electronic diff by mandate - two items which would typically cost over $5000 in additional options for a 911 range car!).

If they are offering the 991.2 GT3 with MT as standard and mechanical differential I believe the price will very only marginally from the outgoing 991.1 GT3. My best guess is we will see a list price of $139K USD. Of course adding a LWFC may cost you another $3K but thats another topic.

For a PDK-S equipped car (assumes eletro diff) I expect the base price will clime to $145K. So for like to like comparison with 2013 model we are talking a 7.5% increase in price as this is inter generational (i.e. facelift).
Old 11-01-2016, 09:31 PM
  #621  
mass27
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Originally Posted by CAlexio
Porsche does not flippantly adjust pricing based on the American economy, to think that somehow our financial fluctuations affect world pricing is miopic. If anything, German economy is in the tank, and Europe in general.. but again, prices have never moved based on that.

Also, porsche does not price according to sunk investment/cost, it prices relative to horsepower within the model range. It cares about the relative value proposition above all else.. they don't try to take advantage of higher demand to make a few extra bucks.. that would screw up a lifetime of carefully layered and programmed product differentiation strategies to sell us 10's of different iterations of the same car. Genius doesn't think short-term.

Porsche Price increases follow a pattern, as they always have, with a tight correlation between models. Now, considering the strength of the dollar, we might see a relative softening across the range as our purchasing power has increased relative to the euro, but this is not GT3-specific, it's European automobile specific if anything.

As we've seen many times, country prices keep a correlation which doesn't fluctuate much relatively (countries have differential pricing, but it stays consistent).
So, what is your prediction of the new MSRP?
Old 11-01-2016, 11:00 PM
  #622  
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If they really want to up the ante with the new 991.2 GT3 they will fit it with 265 front and 325 rear tyres (i.e. make the rims wider). These should fit with a slightly altered front guard liner behind the new bumper. With the extra front lip downforce and the slightly higher rear wing we have seen and combined with the extra torque of the 4.0L RS engine and some slight tweaks to RWS, suspension geometry and EPS calibration they will then have a car thats comparable in outright lap times to the outgoing 991.1 GT3RS....
Old 11-01-2016, 11:06 PM
  #623  
C.J. Ichiban
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many moons ago I made a bet with someone here on RL that the MSRP would break 150k. I am still sticking with that assumption, assuming there is a larger pool of included content...which is really a genius way that Audi and some other companies have played with MSRP increases in justification.

nav included!
ceramics included! (ferrari move)
rear wheel steering included!
Old 11-01-2016, 11:12 PM
  #624  
Nizer
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My comment above related to how many they'd make and how easily they'd move.

As regards Porsche prices following a pattern, or being tightly correlated to power increases in subsequent models, or the company not factoring in the relative strength of the economy when setting MSRP policy, the evidence would suggest otherwise. What I see shows evidence of opportunistic pricing that is more likely related to the state of the global economy at the time and as Macca says where they see the value proposition relative to competitor pricing and product offerings.

996 GT3 3.6 380 HP -->$100K
997.1 GT3 3.6 415 HP --> $106k +6% Price; +9% HP
997.2 GT3 3.8 435 HP $112K +6%Pr; +5% HP
991.1 GT3 3.8 475 HP $134K +20% Pr; +9% HP


996 GT3 RS 3.6 400 HP --> $ NA
997.1 GT3 RS 3.6 415 HP $123K +?; +4%
997.2 GT3 RS 3.8 450 HP $133k +8% Pr; +8% HP
991.1 RS 4.0 500hp HP $178k +34% Pr; +11% HP

Last edited by Nizer; 11-02-2016 at 08:35 AM.
Old 11-01-2016, 11:12 PM
  #625  
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Delete

Last edited by Mr. Adair; 11-01-2016 at 11:34 PM.
Old 11-01-2016, 11:22 PM
  #626  
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Originally Posted by Nizer
My comment above related to how many they'd make and how easily they'd move.

As regards Porsche prices following a pattern, or being tightly correlated to power increases in subsequent models, or the company not factoring in the relative strength of the economy when setting MSRP policy, the evidence would suggest otherwise. What I see shows more evidence of opportunistic pricing that is more likely related to the state of the global economy at the time and as Macca says where they see the value proposition relative to competitor pricing and product offerings.

996 GT3 3.6 380 HP -->$100K
997.1 GT3 3.6 415 HP --> $106k +6% Price; +9% HP
997.2 GT3 3.8 435 HP $112K +6%Pr; +5% HP
991.1 GT3 3.8 475 HP $134K +20% Pr; +9% HP


996 GT3 RS 3.6 400 HP --> $ NA
997.1 GT3 RS 3.6 415 HP $123K +?; +4%
997.2 GT3 RS 3.8 450 HP $133k +8% Pr; +8% HP
991.1 RS 4.0 500hp HP $178k +34% Pr; +11% HP
Agree^

Don't see a reason for Porsche to leave any money on the table. With the 4.0l engine and how popular these cars are it will be a $145-150k base price.
And expect to see a higher percentage of cars hitting US shores. Stuttgart is making another 10% on the dollar-euro conversion as well.
Old 11-01-2016, 11:53 PM
  #627  
nxfedlt1
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Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban
many moons ago I made a bet with someone here on RL that the MSRP would break 150k. I am still sticking with that assumption, assuming there is a larger pool of included content...which is really a genius way that Audi and some other companies have played with MSRP increases in justification.

nav included!
ceramics included! (ferrari move)
rear wheel steering included!
this. there is a growing trend to make money through financing thanks to QE. I'm saying a 152k MSRP...and I bet the premium on options is increased as well, too much margin left on the table.

I can't find the forbes article that covered the ownership of Porsche and the infighting among the remaining family members, but it basically said its only a matter of time till the last few stewards of the "old porsche" are gone.
Old 11-02-2016, 12:01 AM
  #628  
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Originally Posted by Nizer
Nice summary, though I still expect a NA 991.2 RS separate from GT2 RS.
There's not enough enough time, it will be the LE last NA. But could be R or RS.
Old 11-02-2016, 12:26 AM
  #629  
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Originally Posted by TRAKCAR
There's not enough enough time, it will be the LE last NA. But could be R or RS.
This^

And they will hurry to get the gt2rs on the market so we can buy it in the thousands.


Then a limited "nr plaque" 4.2l cup edition to finish it off.
Old 11-02-2016, 02:07 AM
  #630  
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Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban
many moons ago I made a bet with someone here on RL that the MSRP would break 150k. I am still sticking with that assumption, assuming there is a larger pool of included content...which is really a genius way that Audi and some other companies have played with MSRP increases in justification.
I'm still waiting to collect on that bet-

I hope you plan to play long enough for me to collect........


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