Whoopsy

It has a completely new oiling system for the heads and seems to be holding up with none of the GT3R retiring from engine issues so far in racing.

That engine in the GT3R is the gen 2 engine and the gen 2.5 is the one that's going into the .2 GT3.

neanicu

Don't expect AP to give much explanation. That would be like admitting there's a problem and would really **** off current GT3 owners. As always,if these changes happen,they will happen " quietly ".

jimbo1111

I believe the GT department is going the way of the M department did for bmw. History! Once the turbo development takes hold. Everything GT Will be coming out of the mother company. It's just a matter of time.

bronson7

Whoopsy, everything you've seen and heard re the GT3/RS engine issue's, would you be confident with all you now know about the 2.5 engine in buying a 991.2 gt3?

TONY AIR C2S

+1

usctrojanGT3

So Porsche will introduce another 911 car in 2017 along with the GT3?

Macca

Or more to the point buying a 911R or late production RS?

As a few who have looked at this issue more closely have advised, it's not the oil alone that is the issue but the friction between the cam lobe and the finger follower which do not appear to carry a sufficient film of lubrication...

So if they want to stop the DLC from sheering off the finger followers and thus scoring the cam lobes it's my thought they need more than additional oil lubrication to remedy this issue...they have already added oil galleries and up rated the oil pump and filter as well as the ECU software that regulates pressure on the later MA175 and MA176 engines.

I want to believe the 991.2 engine is bullet proof and that it can operate robustly at 8500-9000 rpm. Pointing to the racing program and saying the road car will be all right is nice but like many I have grown a healthy level of scepticism since taking delivery of my GR3 in 2013 (and three engines later). To be honest I hardly trust what I'm told these days...

Whoopsy

Engine problem on the GT3/GT3RS never bothers me. If it blows up, Porsche replaces it for free, and tacks on extra warranty. The car will be properly documented at the factory as having the correct replacement engine in the car as if it came from the factory with the replacement engine, and the serial numbers will all match in Porsche's system and that's what counts.

If I were to buy a GT3 right now, I would pick a 14 with the replacement engine over a 15 that hasn't has the engine replaced. A 14 with the extended engine warranty will be worth more than a 15 with only the standard warranty.

As for the .2 GT3, it will be good to know the engine is a race derived engine. Something a lot of Porsche GT lovers loved. Like the old Mezger engines.

Whoopsy

It's really funny how the engine problem only appears in customers' hands.


At Leipzig and other Porsche Driving Schools, they have production GT3RS as student cars, those cars go through so much abuse every session. Banging off the rev limiter, extend period at high rpm, you name it. None of the cars in the fleet ever had problems. And they never even go through those 1000km, 1500km 'break-in' period either, they get driven hard from the get go.

Only care the Porsche staff puts in was to let the car warmed up properly in the morning, basically start the car and let it idle till oil hit 50 degrees before taking them out, even then they don't rev the engine, just slowly getting it up to 70-90 degree operating temperature. After that the cars are ready for a whole day of abuse on the track. I have had extended talk with the driving staff and mechanics off the record and they say they really haven't seen a single GT3RS failed in the schools. They did admit there was a few Carreras that failed before. .1, not the turbo engine .2.

Some people don't realize that these engines are now build with such tight tolerance that they are basically the same as delicate race engines that have negative clearance, the whole engine needed to be warmed up and the metal expanded to proper clearance before it can be revved.

Somehow those Germans still haven't realize normal people are not like them, we don't use a check list and follow the text book, most people start driving right away in the cold morning. The Germans are simply not wired that way.

Whoopsy

But there is one thing. Porsche never really admits to anything wrong with their cars, most of the time their 'fixes' are running fixes that will be applied on the line. And later on send out a campaign to service the already built cars and install the updated parts.

My early built 918 is a perfect example. Every single campaign they issued involved my early car. I believe one of the parts that was updated has been through 3 generations already. I had version 1 on my car and the latest part that came in is version 4.

And the funny thing is, both still carry the exact part number. We found that out from comparing the other 918s the dealership had serviced. As it happens 3 different versions already exists within the 5 cars they had serviced, and the incoming part is different than all 3 versions.

Macca

I don't want to discredit your theory but I have it first hand that at least two of the 991RS at the Porsche Masters Class in September were down for "unknown reasons".

Porsche will never tell you there is a problem as you say!

I also have it on good account that ALL the early RSR Nurburgring 991 GT3 cars have had replacement and their RS had recently been attended to as well (close friends were there three weeks ago).

In the WEC series in Germany this season I'm told second hand there were three RS engine issues (the GT3 have almost all had issues),

Myself and others here with failed engines (over 40 and counting) almost all warm our cars up before taking them on the track or driving in anger Im sure.

To date the only hard driven track GT3 on this board I recall have not yet had issues are the F series cars of Manifold, OrthoJoe and perhaps R.Deacon. Most are now succumbing to replacements.

For the RS I only know off hand two guys run those at 20 plus days so far (track car and Joe). I'm guessing G series GT3 and RS will start to show issues next track season.

So yes it's strange how PAG tell you one thing when really another happens - but let's be honest here fellows - this has been the theme since rod bolt recall starting from fire Jan 2014...,the theme has been RADIO SILENCE.

They revise and revise (in MA175 engine now over 40 changes now since first production E and in RS latest G engine has also a number of revision including heads and cams and springs.

I'll eat my hat happily if wrong but I'm guessing the changes identified in November during 9A1 testing are the changes you already see in 911R, July RS and now all replacement GT3 engines, namely DLC cams, new heads with altered oil galleries and updated ECU software running revised oil pressures! I believe your version 2.5 engine is already arrived, and that the 991.2 engine will be more of the same. I bloody well hope I'm wrong as it help my enjoyment of the new GT3 although I will miss the 9000 redline (what a crying shame they had to dumb this down for R and RS and no doubt all future GT3).

Call me cynical but I don't think after what we've been through since 2013 it would be right to feel any other way. Until AP speaks up and makes us all feel good again of course ;-p

Macca

The replacement engines are considered a warranty replacement and are not logged against the chassis VIN at the factory like they were during the global recall on E engines in March 2014.

I know this for fact as the distributor in my country contacted PAG after my insessent nagging when my third (G) engine was installed in Feb this year. The factory do not supply engine serial labels to lay over the old ones on the rear engine lid like they did during the recall and they issue no certificate nor do they apply to make any changes to the local authorities registry of the engine number vs the VIN.

In March after 4 track days and 6000 km on the new G engine I had an oil change. The global PWSIS system for my chassis number recommend the wrong oil filter (E engine) which was supplied and delayed the work for half a day. When I questioned if the PWSIS would be changed to reflect the fact I now have a G engine that takes a different style of filter the question was again asked of PAG and they said that it would not change on their system. The engine is simply a replacement "part".

I think its important we are clear on this...

As for the whole new race engine thing. Mr Quan you and I have been around a long time and we both know that you need a very big grain of salt when it comes to getting real hard cold facts from PAG employees. They must breed them as masters of anti information and the keepers of the dark curtain of silence because more than one person on here has had close connections to the factory only to be told one thing and another to happen. We will largely be in the dark until we are not. So it is said in the land of PAG LOL!

Macca

Sorry for clarity the event my friend (he is well known on this board) attended where the RS were out of action was:

Barber Motorsport Park - Porsche Sport Driving School (Masters) 17-18 Sept 2016....

Whoopsy

That would make sense as I was at Leipzig in April 2016.

In any case, those Germans are quite sneaky isn't it?

Macca

I need they are lol!