Again,the rev matching argument is weak. Drive it in normal mode and you have to do it yourself. There is no way you can achieve that level of involvement with the 991 GT3. Why? Because you have both hands on the steering wheel at all times and are using only 1 leg.
The GT4 is forgiving at the limit,but it will understeer rather than oversteer. It depends on your preference,but the longer wheelbase in the front and RWS help the GT3 tremendously on turn it.
The long gears argument is valid to a certain point. You can definitely use 2-3 and 4th if you wanted to shift,nobody is stoping you. If you shift at redline every time is a different story. I don't,but I'm an inexperienced driver.
I have driven both at the limit and I can 100% guarantee you will be busier and more involved in the GT4. I'd like to read what exactly makes the GT3 " harder " to drive than the GT4...with arguments. I call that statement total biased BS!

 

I seriously doubt that. Good pros drive these cars near their limits (on tracks, not roads). The rest of us drive them, at most, near our own limits, not the car's limits.

Regarding understeer, etc., that's an issue of the balance of the setup - which can be adjusted - not how inherently difficult or easy the configuration of the car is to drive. If a car understeers badly because of an issue with the car (rather than the driver), you fix that rather than proclaiming the car 'hard to drive'. A badly understeering car may be easy to drive, it just won't be fast.

 

Yes my limit,of course...

Anyway,when driven at " your limit ",what makes you say that the GT3 is " harder " to drive than the GT4?

 

Then we're talking apples and oranges.

All you've really told us is that you drive your GT4 on the road at speeds you find fun, and imagine it be more engaging and hard to drive than the GT3, which you don't own.

I also usually enjoy the GT4 more than the GT3 at reasonable road speeds, but it has nothing to do with one car being easier to drive than the other in those conditions. I find all cars to be fairly 'easy to drive' on the road.

On the track, where the limits of the cars can be approached, is when we can meaningfully talk about one car being easier to drive than another. I find that corner entry and corrections in corners are generally easier with the GT4, and more effort is also needed to manage the power of the GT3 through corner exit (past apex).

 

I've driven both on track. How is the GT3 " harder " to drive again?

 

If you're talking a few laps in the GT3 as a novice track driver, that doesn't say much about the car itself, since just about all novices find track driving to be challenging regardless of the car, and they generally don't spend much time near the limits of the cars.

 

That's fine,I am a novice driver. I am nowhere near your vast experience on the track. So please be so kind to educate me how the GT3 is " harder " to drive. What makes you say that? There must be something. Is it something that can't be expressed in words? Is it just a sensation? If so I understand... No irony in this post from me,just so you know...

 

See post #184. I'm not saying the 991 GT3 is hard to drive on track, just that I find the GT4 a bit easier to drive on track. But since I'm not extracting a true 10/10ths from either car, for me there will always be challenge and fun in both cars.

 

I would guess, the reason it's harder is due to the GT3 "limits" being higher and achieved more quickly than a GT4.

I use to track quite a bit. A good example was my Subaru STI. Stock it was fast. As time went by I modified suspension, power and transmission making it a joy on track; but it was a bear simply due to the cars increased limits well above my capabilities!

 

Yes,I have read that^^^,but my novice driver thinking couldn't comprehend that's the reason the GT3 is " harder " to drive. And it still can't...
More,the rear engined 911s are famous for corner exit traction,so again,what you're saying is contradictory...
I can agree that you could carry more speed through a corner with the GT4,because of the mid engine layout...

 

I'm in N's camp on this one. The GT3 (of which I have driven a lot, though not as much as the 997) is easier to drive at the limit than my GT4...in my experience and opinion. I'm sorry, until I see videos and data of lap times and your skill, I'm not going to accept "I'm a badass because....", or "I know bob, and he races X and has 3 laps in a GT4", or "I'm an instructor....", as qualification to make a global fact statement about the topic, so lets leave all of this as "in my opinion". Nu93 has more skill than all of us put together in this thread, and there is a ton of evidence of that...just watch his videos and listen to his words.

To be more specific as to why I *think* the GT4 is more difficult....I find the GT4 has some issues that crop up at the limit, its grip is imbalanced, and drops away at times that can be difficult to predict. It's suspension is not as good as the GT3. If you were to plot the camber curves of the rear suspension on the GT3 vs. the GT4, they are on opposite worlds - and the fact that the GT4 is too soft exacerbates the camber issue. You are a lot busier with your hands and inputs at the limit in the GT4 (not to mention operating a third pedal and pedals simultaneously with one foot). The GT3 was designed to be easier to drive in this generation, it needs to be in oder to compete..in order to make its owners dominate the track like they forked over their money to do. The GT4 is a parts bin car that is not as well developed, but ended up being a ton of FUN to drive. The GT3 can go ***** out with little investment....the GT4 needs a couple grand of bits and bobs to work, and we're STILL trying to figure it out. I love it for what it is, but now having a couple hundred laps at COTA in it, I'm finding it's a new beast to learn - which makes it an interesting car.

If driving a car that is "difficult" to drive at speed is where you draw your self confidence from, then get a Honda Odyssey...I guarantee it is more difficult to drive at high speeds than a Porsche.

 

I like both cars. Please see below for an interesting, and technical analysis from Car and Driver. It is a 997.2 GT3 vs. Cayman, but the points are very applicable for the 991 GT3 vs. GT4 comparison.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...11-gt3-feature

 

I've been consistent in saying that my comparison of which car is easier to drive is from my vantage point, and I'm not presuming to compare the cars from a 'global' standpoint, driving them close to the absolute limit with the skill of someone like Rorhrl.

I've done thousands of laps in the 991 GT3 at numerous tracks, so I feel like I know the car fairly well. I've only done dozens of laps in the GT4, and while I felt that I got reasonably up to speed with the car fairly quickly (more so than the GT3), I'll report how my impression of the GT4 changes as I track it more.

 

Randy Pobst on the Cayman R below - he loved the handling. He also had issues with 991 RS tending to oversteer at corner entry, and complained of understeer in the GT4 (possibly due to bad setup). TRAKCAR has no issues with the handling of his RS, and I've found the 991 GT3 easier to drive than the Cayman R. If you see contradictions in all of this, you're not alone ...

 

In my humble opinion I am sorry to say it, but at times most 911 drivers I meet, even friends that I know well often use that Old argument when I see them on track. They often say this-But I got a 911 and its hard and macho to drive as I got the engine in the rear🙈( is thats some excuses for some as they dont carry speed on track, I dont know really&#128563

In the end people are free to think what they think and it might be their truth. What I cant stand Is when they try to transfer their own personal thought on to me. Likewise, I should not transfer my opinion on to others.
All have valid points, to some a gt3 is the NotreDame hunchback scary widowmaker.

To others its just a fast fun car, that also go sidways several laps in the Lidner Hotel roundabout, its just as easy as in my gt4 and in my CSL, different but just as easy! For some scary and will never happen....... thats ok...


Anyway, to drive a gt4 at 7.30 btg or down to 7.20btg wich is Porsche factory speed. Then you are forced to often let go of steering to shift mid corner. At the same time you pull some G, this is more fysically hard vs pdk cars. Hence you get warmer, you sweet more😂

As well mentaly more hard than 2 hands on steering all time. I promise, it is more of a workout as them G force get to you as only one hand on steering mid corner have effect on you-its a long track and 300m height difference on track as well of camber here and there, you feel this things very well here.

You get better support back in to seat if always 2 hands on steering-its a long track. Less sweet, less fysically hard. Aswell Mentally and fysically you notice these things when you are having some speed.

Grip and downforce, wider stance and a go-fast-pdk come to play and these things matters. That 991 GT3 RS got downforce like a modern cup car. That is the same as some drivers will use it to their advantage very easy.

In the same way others might not make use of that. I know the fast sections on Nur will be less drama and fear if I got downforce like a cup car, car will be more stable. Even less drama and fear even higher speed as I can keep 2 hands on the steeringwheel.

Only that will make it more easy to me to stay calm on fast sections. I rather go full speed over bump in swedenkrytz in 270 gps in 991 gt3 Rs( that is cars max potential at this section) calm and stable due to big areo than 250+ gps slightly instabile and scary same section in a gt4.

There is a reason 991 gt3 Rs got pdk and bigger aero and wider tire, and thats to make it easy to go fast on track.
In the opposite way the 911r is not as fast and not as easy as Rs.
I dont buy in to car journalist in general, they are who to blame that people in general are still scared of a 911.