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Herein lies the problem. It used to be that all these attributes applied to "plain jane" M-cars. Now you only get them if you jump thru the ultra-expensive, ultra-limited GTS hoops...... And then you're still left with the styling......
I'm a BMW fan and owned eight including M-cars over the past decade, but the current line-up does little for me and this challenge in finding anything that appeals is reflected in sales data. Hope they regain their mojo soon.
You can say the same for qualities of the GT3. It used to be a driver's car in the 996 and 997 form, something to master, something that required the driver to be scared and super human at the same time. Now it essentially drives itself and chases after the GTR to prove itself. They have removed all the biting and made it a good doggy. The 991RS is exciting because it makes no excuses for itself, it is the fastest 911 you can buy....that's it's goal full stop (until the GT2).
I'm a die hard M car owner as well, and I do agree the F30/80 annoyed with the turbo engine, but for some reason I am excited about the GTS on a path that the GT3 went the opposite way on. Everyone has their opinion....
Shake you put it out well, Porsche setting after nissan GT-R, so eager they became the new rear wheel driven GT-r:-)
What I find strange is there are many that try to play it out that the 911 is so macho car, hard to drive etc, engine in rear etc, thats like way back 964 RS car, not anylonger.
Anyway I personally think many dont understand how great this KW 3 ways M4 GTS will be to drive, put the most negative guy in it, the guy that say he dont like the look. Well you can test my car, I am sure you smile.
Pics from my last Porsche trackday, great fun.
This is 20 GT4, 21 991 GT3 RS and the rest is 991 GT3(85 GT cars). Thats a reason right there to have the M4 GTS, you will never see a bunch of them:-)
You can say the same for qualities of the GT3. It used to be a driver's car in the 996 and 997 form, something to master, something that required the driver to be scared and super human at the same time. Now it essentially drives itself and chases after the GTR to prove itself. They have removed all the biting and made it a good doggy. The 991RS is exciting because it makes no excuses for itself, it is the fastest 911 you can buy....that's it's goal full stop (until the GT2).
I'm a die hard M car owner as well, and I do agree the F30/80 annoyed with the turbo engine, but for some reason I am excited about the GTS on a path that the GT3 went the opposite way on. Everyone has their opinion....
I find the GT4 easier to drive than the 991 GT3, and M4 GTS is probably also easier to drive than the 991 GT3. Also, the technology in the GT3 and RS is basically the same, RS is mainly faster because of more aero, more tire, somewhat more hp/torque, and a bit less weight.
I find the GT4 easier to drive than the 991 GT3, and M4 GTS is probably also easier to drive than the 991 GT3. Also, the technology in the GT3 and RS is basically the same, RS is mainly faster because of more aero, more tire, somewhat more hp/torque, and a bit less weight.
The GT3 is light years easier than previous generations was my point. Porsche did this on purpose was my other point - because they were humiliated by the GTR, which gets a lot of its speed from driver confidence.
I agree the GT4 is easier to drive to 9/10 than the GT3. Beyond that point, it's more difficult because it does not have the exit grip/stability due to an inferior suspension design.
I find out that I accually drift a rear engine gt3 better and more easy to keep bigger drift angle due to engine in rear. Also better to keep propper drift angle than my gt4.
How do I know, well I drift anything I get my hands on. Often I also win driftchallenge when I challenge my selfe. I used the driftbox for ages and even most use them for laptime you easy set up several sections all around any track if you like then you have driftchallenge. All over I set up these gps based drift sections, always win when in a gt3. You dont pull that big drift angle in that front engine BMW or mid gt4.(Talking stock cars)
Then its gps base and depending on speed and angle etc you get the score instant while drivning in display. I always score better in a gt3 vs my m3 or other cars. Totalt more drift angle in them gt3 cars vs any BMW front engine car. I guess its depending on who One ask, but I find them gt3 to be different to drive than them BMW and GT4, but that dont mean I personaly think they are harder to drive than any other car, just different.
Then again as I always said, give me a stock Volvo V70 estate from 2008, that thing is propper hard and scary to go fast at Nur. There is a reason, its not built to go fast-thats a propper challenge. Them Porsches meh..them 911 are to me just as easy to drive as any other sporty built car.
I totaly dont buy in to that macho hard to drive Porsche ☺️. But for sure I know other do. Nothing wrong in that, we all will think different in this matter.
Which gen GT3 is harder to drive than the GT4? If we're talking 991,I call that total BS. Just for the fact you have to do more in the GT4 than in the 991 GT3...like shifting. Forget the rev match,just do it yourself... A lot more going on in the GT4. Is the handling more forgiving in the GT4 being mid engine and all? Yes,but not easier. The front end grip in the 991 GT3 has increased dramatically from the past gen,then you have nannies and RWS...plus great tires. As a matter of fact,leave the PDK-S in auto and the GT3 is very smooth and forgiving at the limit compared to past gen.
I must agree That my gt4 accually was very hard to generate front end grip when on stock factory setting. Still i struggle to find front end grip but now got -2 front camber. Still struggle on -2 and we all know thats to less. Then again I looking forward to M4 GTS as it wider tire in front (265) and engine weight front and -2 front from factory. Will be less understeery than my gt4 and that i like.
All gt3/2 I driven was propper set up and did accually provide better front end grip then my gt4. I kind of like a car set up more to the oversteery thats why i might think gt4 is very hard to drive fast on factory setting due to its sooo understeery.
Cant get Walter Röhrls gt4 lap out of my head, when I open his datalogg to watch it...and man he is Killing it in understeer still manage to get 2.8/2.9 bar rear. Front only 2.4:-) I can tell he did not start his lap this high tire pressure. If you see his trace, and the amount of understeer he get on track.. thats not something I would call easy to drive around a track. Them tire are overheating, cant generate to much grip:-)
Hehe, sure I know you will take care of her, and there is no chance anyone could miss shift blowing up the gearbox(like in gt4 ), but must you drive her at Nurburgring its only 700 of them 🙈
Originally Posted by Kobalt
Nah, I don't like the looks of your car, don't like the wing, don't like anything about that BMW GTS, I'm really skeptic
Hehe, sure I know you will take care of her, and there is no chance anyone could miss shift blowing up the gearbox(like in gt4 ), but must you drive her at Nurburgring its only 700 of them 🙈
Interesting discussion. I only know four people with 991 GT3 AND GT4 who run then both hard on track. Consensus from those four (who are on these RL boards) is that the GT3 is the harder car to drive towards the limit. I think the editor of SportAuto would agree.
As for the car driving itself that's just rubbish. The RWS is benign, you don't know it's there and the ESC & TC rarely intervene even on the Nurburgring. I found the GT3 harder to properly master than I was expecting coming from my 993 RS spec on track.
As for changing gears in Sport mode the GT4 holds the revs on up shifts and blips on down shifts - on a short track over here you would only loose time on your up shifts and I've spent much time with a seasoned driven on the track looking at the traces - the gearing is so long that at our local track the GT4 shifts up only twice the whole track and looses 0.4s total. The downshifts don't loose time. If you want to work harder buy a 993/964RS and the newer manual car will seem like a PDK by comparison!
Lots of BS and bravado on the boards but let's not get into the usual arguments here - Nur93 is a fine driver and chose before a car quipped with DSG (CSL) which he claimed to love and now M4 GTS so arguments of automated boxes and technology should be left at the door. M4 GTS looks like a fine car but I'd like to see BMW make a M2 CSL to tempt me back to the brand. They need too loose 80kg, better brakes and suspension, small BHP bump, bigger TQ bump, and to be honest IMO they can keep the MT for history only. That's the car I want to see them build please...
05-12-2016, 10:48 AM
its only 700 of them 🙈
