How many 15-16 gt3's have engine replaced?
06-30-2017, 12:46 PM
#2401
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From https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...reuninger.html
5. If you own a GT3 or RS, AP says follow a break in procedure! Maybe not as slow as the manual says, but low revs for first 750 mi or so, and then increment them up after. Really he thinks any Porsche engine should be broken in, but especially high rpm motors.
[...]
5. If you own a GT3 or RS, AP says follow a break in procedure! Maybe not as slow as the manual says, but low revs for first 750 mi or so, and then increment them up after. Really he thinks any Porsche engine should be broken in, but especially high rpm motors.
[...]
Surely Porsche put lots of miles on a number of 991.1 engines without these fiery conrod and DLC coating failures...
06-30-2017, 05:43 PM
#2402
Three Wheelin'
Jimbo,
I don't mean to be offensive, but these speculations (the term you used in your first post on this topic) are not accurate.
It is true. With a manual trans, all the gears are mechanically connected together and spinning at all times. The speed of each output gear is determined by the selected gear, which is coupled to the output shaft. So if you are going 150mph in 6th, the 1st gear output gear is spinning at like 35,000 RPMs (it just isn't connected to the output shaft).
This is EXACTLY what happens in a manual transmission in every respect, it just happens with a slightly different mechanism. A manual transmission effectively has two "clutch like" mechanisms. The clutch and the gear synchros. When you change gears, the synchro changes the layshaft speed to the next selected gear speed to "set RPM equal to the gear before it."
From the perspective of the engine and the clutch, there is no difference whatsoever in any respect. The clutch matches the engine speed to the layshaft (manual) or second gearset (PDK) speed, which is matched to the output shaft via the gearing. It's literally exactly the same from the perspective of the engine.
Now, you are just making things up with no basis in any actual mechanical reality. Your impression that the engine "seems to literally bind up" is wrong. The engine doesn't "halt." That is not correct. It just changes RPM, which is no big deal. Upshift from redline in 1st gear to 6th gear sometime as fast as you can. It will be a big change in RPM (likely much larger delta than PDK ever creates), but your car isn't going to halt. The RPMs are going to drop and all will be fine.
The forces you are imagining to be big (which only impact the crankshaft and camshafts, which are already rotating) are probably 100 orders of magnitude less than the tensile force applied to the connecting rod that changes direction 300 times per second at 9,000 RPMs with a tremendous pressure induced lateral force.
The "bang" you feel is just the full and rapid application of torque continuing the acceleration after a brief pause, like speed shifting a manual, only faster.
I don't mean to be offensive, but these speculations (the term you used in your first post on this topic) are not accurate.
From the perspective of the engine and the clutch, there is no difference whatsoever in any respect. The clutch matches the engine speed to the layshaft (manual) or second gearset (PDK) speed, which is matched to the output shaft via the gearing. It's literally exactly the same from the perspective of the engine.
Next time your out with your car take note of the situation. See how fast the rpms fall between shift. Its so fast that the engine seems to literally bind up. That certainly cant be good for a rotating mass to come to a halt that quickly. Something is absorbing the impact.
The forces you are imagining to be big (which only impact the crankshaft and camshafts, which are already rotating) are probably 100 orders of magnitude less than the tensile force applied to the connecting rod that changes direction 300 times per second at 9,000 RPMs with a tremendous pressure induced lateral force.
The "bang" you feel is just the full and rapid application of torque continuing the acceleration after a brief pause, like speed shifting a manual, only faster.
07-02-2017, 02:58 PM
#2403
Three Wheelin'
I've been on a forum hiatus for over a year since I got married. I'm on about page 25 of over 160 on this sad but important thread that I'm still reading. In my opinion this thread should be a sticky. Here are my data points to the extent it may help.
Vehicle: GT3
Model Year: 2015
Delivery date: December 3, 2014
Engine: F
Break in: From memory per AP (to 4k RPM per manual to 1000 mi then 1K incremental increases to 9k)
Mileage: 20850 (as of 07/02/17)
Track Mileage: 250 (after break in)
Service: Per manual. One oil change to date another coming soon.
Condition: A-Okay
The GT3 is my weekend and occasional week day car with the Cayenne putting on most of the daily miles. From what I've read to date, I don't think I'm driving the car hard enough under track conditions to be scoring the cams and, haven't received any warning messages or oil issues. Sure, I drive faster than most folks and, still do the occasional canyon run but, I'm not in sport auto repeatedly hitting 9k like many track rats here. I'll be bringing the car in soon for regular maintenance.
One thing I'm curious is why we can't replace out G parts such as oil pump but, I'll hold off on asking anything as I'm only about a sixth of the way through the thread and, need to educate myself. I am a bit concerned about what I've read so far as my intention is to keep title to this car until I'm six feet under or, I produce a kid who wants it and I'm absolutely sure wont kill himself or herself. Guess I need to check out extended warranty options down the road.
On a personal note for any who care, I've been busy living the married life and, growing my small law practice. We're at three attorneys in Los Angeles and Orange county now and looking to add a northern California office shortly. As for cars, I'm still waiting on the Mission E. I'm going to skip the GT2RS since there is no point to owning one except on the track if you already have a GT3. Plus, it's too much of a "look at me" car and, I'm too old for that. I'm hoping the Cayenne will turn into a baby mobile soon so, I may have an excuse to get a used manual transmission car to daily until the Mission E comes out and, maybe turn that in for a manual GT3 when allocations opportunities are better next year or the year after.
Dan (offers apologies to those who PM'd me regarding canyon runs and did not receive a response during my hiatus)
Vehicle: GT3
Model Year: 2015
Delivery date: December 3, 2014
Engine: F
Break in: From memory per AP (to 4k RPM per manual to 1000 mi then 1K incremental increases to 9k)
Mileage: 20850 (as of 07/02/17)
Track Mileage: 250 (after break in)
Service: Per manual. One oil change to date another coming soon.
Condition: A-Okay
The GT3 is my weekend and occasional week day car with the Cayenne putting on most of the daily miles. From what I've read to date, I don't think I'm driving the car hard enough under track conditions to be scoring the cams and, haven't received any warning messages or oil issues. Sure, I drive faster than most folks and, still do the occasional canyon run but, I'm not in sport auto repeatedly hitting 9k like many track rats here. I'll be bringing the car in soon for regular maintenance.
One thing I'm curious is why we can't replace out G parts such as oil pump but, I'll hold off on asking anything as I'm only about a sixth of the way through the thread and, need to educate myself. I am a bit concerned about what I've read so far as my intention is to keep title to this car until I'm six feet under or, I produce a kid who wants it and I'm absolutely sure wont kill himself or herself. Guess I need to check out extended warranty options down the road.
On a personal note for any who care, I've been busy living the married life and, growing my small law practice. We're at three attorneys in Los Angeles and Orange county now and looking to add a northern California office shortly. As for cars, I'm still waiting on the Mission E. I'm going to skip the GT2RS since there is no point to owning one except on the track if you already have a GT3. Plus, it's too much of a "look at me" car and, I'm too old for that. I'm hoping the Cayenne will turn into a baby mobile soon so, I may have an excuse to get a used manual transmission car to daily until the Mission E comes out and, maybe turn that in for a manual GT3 when allocations opportunities are better next year or the year after.
Dan (offers apologies to those who PM'd me regarding canyon runs and did not receive a response during my hiatus)
07-02-2017, 03:36 PM
#2404
Three Wheelin'
Okay, page 47 #700 Macca answered the question. F engines don't have parts that G engines have including cam lubrication beyond just an oil pump. It sounds like the entire engine would have to be dropped and rebuilt with a number of new parts. I guess that wont happen as a preventative measure although it sure sounds like it should be part of a recall if this is an ongoing known issue. And, I guess that's what the other thread regarding concerned owners is all about.
Dan (takes notes while reading)
Dan (takes notes while reading)
07-31-2017, 09:04 AM
#2405
So weird. I have the G and uses not a drop. Last service they filled it to the top whereas the manual says leave it one bar under the line indicating full. So I have been waiting for level to drop. I don't track but throw it around the bends a bit.
07-31-2017, 09:10 AM
#2406
So now we know porshes final (?) solution to the finger follower issue.
They removed the hydraulic valve adjusters and made a fixed design.
"We have new finger followers with a stiff connection to the valve without any hydraulic adjustment between, which makes it lighter, which makes it a lot lighter to turn, which makes the forces pressure forces between the cam lobe and the finger follower much less - it is about 20 per cent less - so the material is less stressed without the pressure and it just frees up horsepower by deleting it. These are elements which called for a different head design, which called for a different geometry - you can't just go to a gen one engine and take them out! It is a new head and it is worth at least six, seven, eight, nine horsepower, something like that just with less friction." AP.
They removed the hydraulic valve adjusters and made a fixed design.
"We have new finger followers with a stiff connection to the valve without any hydraulic adjustment between, which makes it lighter, which makes it a lot lighter to turn, which makes the forces pressure forces between the cam lobe and the finger follower much less - it is about 20 per cent less - so the material is less stressed without the pressure and it just frees up horsepower by deleting it. These are elements which called for a different head design, which called for a different geometry - you can't just go to a gen one engine and take them out! It is a new head and it is worth at least six, seven, eight, nine horsepower, something like that just with less friction." AP.
Remember the 993 Turbo? Two retrofit factory options offered to 430 and to 450 horses. And yes the ECU needed updating.
07-31-2017, 10:47 AM
#2407
Race Director
Hopefully we'll have some answers on Thursday, when we meet with Porsche in Atlanta.
07-31-2017, 05:52 PM
#2408
Rennlist Member
was the s package new heads or was it jsut an oil cooler and ecu and cams, I cant remember
07-31-2017, 05:55 PM
#2409
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
07-31-2017, 08:49 PM
#2410
Nordschleife Master
07-31-2017, 10:22 PM
#2411
Race Director
08-01-2017, 05:28 AM
#2413
08-14-2017, 12:48 PM
#2415
Race Director